Comments on: Software Engineers http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers The Weblog of Erik J. Barzeski Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:40:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: V. Reinhart http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2160 V. Reinhart Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:10:13 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2160 Sure, you may not be a software engineer, but they do exist. What you fail to realize in your generalizing of the engineering profession, is that engineering is not based on what you build, it's about how you build it. Now let me enlighten you: software engineers take engineering principles and apply them to the solution of problems that exist in the world today, such as control software for a nuclear power plant, or autopilot software for an airliner. As you should already know, these systems are safety critical and a simple 'programmer' or 'software developer' is insufficient for the design and implementation of the required software. Enter the software engineer. What this individual does is apply the same standard that other engineers follow to his discipline, software. So when said safety critical systems need to be developed, we can be sure that they will 'work' properly and not result in the deaths of hundreds to thousands to millions of people. Also, towards the comment that stated that the PEO sued schools for calling software engineers, engineers, there are several schools (eg. Waterloo, McMaster, Queens I believe), in Ontario that offer accredited software engineering programs, and any graduates can apply for certification as a professional engineer. Sure, you may not be a software engineer, but they do exist. What you fail to realize in your generalizing of the engineering profession, is that engineering is not based on what you build, it's about how you build it. Now let me enlighten you: software engineers take engineering principles and apply them to the solution of problems that exist in the world today, such as control software for a nuclear power plant, or autopilot software for an airliner. As you should already know, these systems are safety critical and a simple 'programmer' or 'software developer' is insufficient for the design and implementation of the required software. Enter the software engineer. What this individual does is apply the same standard that other engineers follow to his discipline, software. So when said safety critical systems need to be developed, we can be sure that they will 'work' properly and not result in the deaths of hundreds to thousands to millions of people. Also, towards the comment that stated that the PEO sued schools for calling software engineers, engineers, there are several schools (eg. Waterloo, McMaster, Queens I believe), in Ontario that offer accredited software engineering programs, and any graduates can apply for certification as a professional engineer.

]]> By: Erik J. Barzeski http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2159 Erik J. Barzeski Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:27:47 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2159 John, I understand what you're saying, and certainly agree with you! But none of what you've said makes you "an engineer." You're a software developer, sure, as am I: but an engineer? No. I agree with you too that software developers take pride in their work. That goes without saying. I almost literally personally stand behind every <a href="http://freshlysqueezedsoftware.com/">Freshly Squeezed Software</a> product. John, I understand what you're saying, and certainly agree with you! But none of what you've said makes you "an engineer." You're a software developer, sure, as am I: but an engineer? No.

I agree with you too that software developers take pride in their work. That goes without saying. I almost literally personally stand behind every Freshly Squeezed Software product.

]]> By: John Bracy http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2158 John Bracy Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:57:57 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2158 Just a minute there, hoss. I think it's unfair to say that coders don't take pride in their work. Most of us do: at heart we think of ourselves as engineers or artists. However, we have a problem that bridge builders and painters do not and that is management. You never get a person standing over you saying that a bridge can fall apart, it's an acceptable flaw, people will just restart it. Mostly our deadlines are insane for the jobs we have to do. An architect can take up to a year to design a building, something that's been done many times in the past. I've been on projects where we had one week to do a system design. And there's no real pressure to do it any other way, because people will just curse and restart the program. Just a minute there, hoss. I think it's unfair to say that coders don't take pride in their work. Most of us do: at heart we think of ourselves as engineers or artists. However, we have a problem that bridge builders and painters do not and that is management. You never get a person standing over you saying that a bridge can fall apart, it's an acceptable flaw, people will just restart it. Mostly our deadlines are insane for the jobs we have to do. An architect can take up to a year to design a building, something that's been done many times in the past. I've been on projects where we had one week to do a system design. And there's no real pressure to do it any other way, because people will just curse and restart the program.

]]> By: ssp http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2157 ssp Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:37:56 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2157 I always found 'software engineer' a funny expression. Not only because of the dreaded 'MCSE's but mostly because a friend of mine had 'Senior Software Engineer' as his job title. But while he's a clever guy and good at his job, I found this title a bit unfitting for someone with a three year uni degree and a year of work experience... Perhaps there should be more software <em>engineers</em>. Designing programs and coming up with new ideas may be an ar (cf architects) but actually getting things to work and making sure they're good to use shouldn't be arty or scientific. Now if programmers had the same pride (not just vanity) for their work as engineers have (had), software might be better. As in real life you'd of course need a good balance between architects and engineers (see London Milennium Bridge). Thus I think your approach with 'software developer' is quite precise but there definitely should be more 'software engineers' whose job descriptions live up to their title. I always found 'software engineer' a funny expression. Not only because of the dreaded 'MCSE's but mostly because a friend of mine had 'Senior Software Engineer' as his job title. But while he's a clever guy and good at his job, I found this title a bit unfitting for someone with a three year uni degree and a year of work experience...

Perhaps there should be more software engineers. Designing programs and coming up with new ideas may be an ar (cf architects) but actually getting things to work and making sure they're good to use shouldn't be arty or scientific. Now if programmers had the same pride (not just vanity) for their work as engineers have (had), software might be better.

As in real life you'd of course need a good balance between architects and engineers (see London Milennium Bridge).

Thus I think your approach with 'software developer' is quite precise but there definitely should be more 'software engineers' whose job descriptions live up to their title.

]]> By: Benj's blog ! http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2161 Benj's blog ! Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:04:39 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2161 <strong>Engineering, Science, Art.</strong> I'm not sure what to make of Erik's thoughts inNSLog(); - Software Engineers. Software is about engineering, at least it... Engineering, Science, Art.

I'm not sure what to make of Erik's thoughts inNSLog(); - Software Engineers. Software is about engineering, at least it...

]]> By: the http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2156 the Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:31:00 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2156 I still call myself a hacker, no matter what impression it gives to the ignorant masses. (Better yet, other people call me a hacker- it's not a title you can give to yourself.) People who deserve the noble title should be given it- not just any "programmer" or "software engineer". I still call myself a hacker, no matter what impression it gives to the ignorant masses. (Better yet, other people call me a hacker- it's not a title you can give to yourself.)

People who deserve the noble title should be given it- not just any "programmer" or "software engineer".

]]> By: Argh128 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers#comment-2155 Argh128 Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:04:12 +0000 http://nslog.com/2003/04/17/software_engineers/#comment-2155 There is one other issue... at least in Ontario, is that you can not call your self an engineer unless you are actually an engineer. In fact, when the first Software engineering courses came out a few years back, the PEO (Professional Engineers association of Ontario) sued the schools. They were really upset over the whole use of the word Engineer. My School avoided the whole thing by calling the identical program Software Design. I think Software Designers is a better word then Developers. As you say programming is more an art, and while it can be developed i think it should be designed. ;-) There is one other issue... at least in Ontario, is that you can not call your self an engineer unless you are actually an engineer.

In fact, when the first Software engineering courses came out a few years back, the PEO (Professional Engineers association of Ontario) sued the schools. They were really upset over the whole use of the word Engineer.

My School avoided the whole thing by calling the identical program Software Design. I think Software Designers is a better word then Developers. As you say programming is more an art, and while it can be developed i think it should be designed. ;-)

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