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	<title>Comments on: Declining a Job</title>
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	<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job</link>
	<description>The Weblog of Erik J. Barzeski</description>
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		<title>By: Art Taylor</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5540</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5540</guid>
		<description>I think the &quot;you sux0r&quot; comments are actually really useful here, because they&#039;re drawing out more of the reasons you felt it was appropriate to send an email such as that.  I&#039;ve quit my share of jobs before, and while I&#039;ve usually been careful to send the,&quot;I regret, blah blah, best of luck,&quot; resignation notice, I&#039;ve always been honest in the exit summary.  They often look very similar to your email above, and people who aren&#039;t directly involved usually wonder what the hell happened to piss me off. :-)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the "you sux0r" comments are actually really useful here, because they're drawing out more of the reasons you felt it was appropriate to send an email such as that.  I've quit my share of jobs before, and while I've usually been careful to send the,"I regret, blah blah, best of luck," resignation notice, I've always been honest in the exit summary.  They often look very similar to your email above, and people who aren't directly involved usually wonder what the hell happened to piss me off. <img src='http://nslog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ben Poole</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5538</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Poole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5538</guid>
		<description>Recommended reading:



&lt;a href=&quot;http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2003/06/21/real_names_please&quot;&gt;Charles Miller - Real names, please&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recommended reading:</p>
<p><a  href="http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2003/06/21/real_names_please">Charles Miller - Real names, please</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5536</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5536</guid>
		<description>Hey -- if you want to burn your own bridges, that&#039;s fine.  Trust me; I&#039;m someone who speaks his mind also.  However, where *I* try to draw the line is where my actions affect others for whom I care. 



What left a bad taste in my mouth is what little respect you showed your friends.  They are still there and they are probably paying the price for your ill-advised letter.  I doubt that your friends were trying to screw you.  The offer letter was most likely not the result of *their* actions.



But hey â€“ thatâ€™s just my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey -- if you want to burn your own bridges, that's fine.  Trust me; I'm someone who speaks his mind also.  However, where *I* try to draw the line is where my actions affect others for whom I care. </p>
<p>What left a bad taste in my mouth is what little respect you showed your friends.  They are still there and they are probably paying the price for your ill-advised letter.  I doubt that your friends were trying to screw you.  The offer letter was most likely not the result of *their* actions.</p>
<p>But hey â€“ thatâ€™s just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Quentin</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5535</link>
		<dc:creator>Quentin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5535</guid>
		<description>You forgot to add to your letter that &quot;past instances where I proclaimed a fondness for your company were fraudulent,&quot; or perhaps &quot;you appear foolish in the eyes of others.&quot;



Hey, don&#039;t let the bastards get you down. You did what you did, for the reasons you did. Nobody can read your blog and pass judgements on what you did.



Stick it to &#039;em!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot to add to your letter that "past instances where I proclaimed a fondness for your company were fraudulent," or perhaps "you appear foolish in the eyes of others."</p>
<p>Hey, don't let the bastards get you down. You did what you did, for the reasons you did. Nobody can read your blog and pass judgements on what you did.</p>
<p>Stick it to 'em!</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5534</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 05:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5534</guid>
		<description>erik,



my quick comments on your letter:



1. You can&#039;t help someone that doesn&#039;t want to be helped.  (Criticism given to one who hasn&#039;t asked for it is never taken well in my experience).  That doesn&#039;t mean you should have given it, just that you should have known that it wouldn&#039;t be received well (and perhaps you did know that before you sent the email).



2. It really is better to take the moral high-road, if you will, and to remain respectful and gracious through all steps of the job offer phase, even if you decide at the first meeting that you&#039;ll never work for the company you&#039;re interviewing with... Even if they do insult you with their offer and promises, it is most likely always smarter to play the &#039;respectfully declining and wish you best of luck&#039; card than the one you played... I say this because a) you never know what&#039;s around the corner tomorrow, and you just might need that relationship you&#039;ve developed with the interviewers and b) it&#039;s just more professional.



3. I dig that you wrote what you wanted to when you wanted to, and for that I respect you, but... it&#039;s not the way I&#039;d have done it.  



All of that being said, keep in mind, we&#039;re two different people, and I don&#039;t know the full situation here, so I&#039;m not passing judgement, just trying to pass on a bit of my advice.  Keep being you my friend, you&#039;ll go far.  Just a little more polish, and you&#039;ll go very far, I&#039;m sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>erik,</p>
<p>my quick comments on your letter:</p>
<p>1. You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped.  (Criticism given to one who hasn't asked for it is never taken well in my experience).  That doesn't mean you should have given it, just that you should have known that it wouldn't be received well (and perhaps you did know that before you sent the email).</p>
<p>2. It really is better to take the moral high-road, if you will, and to remain respectful and gracious through all steps of the job offer phase, even if you decide at the first meeting that you'll never work for the company you're interviewing with... Even if they do insult you with their offer and promises, it is most likely always smarter to play the 'respectfully declining and wish you best of luck' card than the one you played... I say this because a) you never know what's around the corner tomorrow, and you just might need that relationship you've developed with the interviewers and b) it's just more professional.</p>
<p>3. I dig that you wrote what you wanted to when you wanted to, and for that I respect you, but... it's not the way I'd have done it.  </p>
<p>All of that being said, keep in mind, we're two different people, and I don't know the full situation here, so I'm not passing judgement, just trying to pass on a bit of my advice.  Keep being you my friend, you'll go far.  Just a little more polish, and you'll go very far, I'm sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5533</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5533</guid>
		<description>I, for one at least, agree with Erik.  I mean, sure, he could have easily just said &quot;no&quot; or he could&#039;ve been more polite, and that would be that.  However, it sounds to me that really, the company straight out insulted him.  Say all you want about high opinions and arrogance, but I bet every one of us had expectations from job offers, and if they fell far below, we were offended.  Hell, I&#039;ve been offended by job offers even whilst unemployed.  There is a certain minimum I expect, and if I&#039;ve already laid that out for the company and they refuse, why should I bother to be polite?  Its an insult, and I&#039;m actually pretty surprised Erik&#039;s letter is as calms as it is.  I can imagine myself in a similar situation yelling something like &quot;you prick, you said you&#039;d give me X and now offer X-10, what gives?&quot;



So lay off ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, for one at least, agree with Erik.  I mean, sure, he could have easily just said "no" or he could've been more polite, and that would be that.  However, it sounds to me that really, the company straight out insulted him.  Say all you want about high opinions and arrogance, but I bet every one of us had expectations from job offers, and if they fell far below, we were offended.  Hell, I've been offended by job offers even whilst unemployed.  There is a certain minimum I expect, and if I've already laid that out for the company and they refuse, why should I bother to be polite?  Its an insult, and I'm actually pretty surprised Erik's letter is as calms as it is.  I can imagine myself in a similar situation yelling something like "you prick, you said you'd give me X and now offer X-10, what gives?"</p>
<p>So lay off <img src='http://nslog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jon Gales</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5532</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Gales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5532</guid>
		<description>If I ever have an office, it&#039;s going to be run like Joel describes (Joel on Software is an excellent read for those of you in control of an office at the moment). Pay really well, work really hard and play really hard.



Congrats on the tell-off... Everyone needs one once in a while. Now just don&#039;t write something similar to Steve Jobs :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I ever have an office, it's going to be run like Joel describes (Joel on Software is an excellent read for those of you in control of an office at the moment). Pay really well, work really hard and play really hard.</p>
<p>Congrats on the tell-off... Everyone needs one once in a while. Now just don't write something similar to Steve Jobs <img src='http://nslog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Erik J. Barzeski</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5531</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik J. Barzeski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5531</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t really asking for a job. I didn&#039;t need another job. I have three right now. I asked if he could beat my current situation. &quot;Hat in hand&quot; is an entirely wrong way of putting it. John knew he had a hill to overcome (my current situation) and continued to assure me that he could overcome it. The offer was woefully short of meeting let alone overcoming it.



I do have a high opinion of myself. I&#039;m a smart guy. Should I go into anything in life thinking that I&#039;m not worthy of being there? I&#039;m good at what I do, and I&#039;m passionate.



I&#039;m also extremely hard on myself. You don&#039;t see that side very often, not on a blog anyway, but it&#039;s there, and anyone who knows me well at all has had to try to get me, at times, not to be so hard on myself. I&#039;m honest and blunt, and never moreso than with myself.



I&#039;ve taken myself to task for not saving the email for later review, but I&#039;ll also stand by what I wrote as what I was thinking at the time. I&#039;m not one to dwell, and I&#039;m certainly not skipping away from this without having learned anything. I don&#039;t know whether it says a lot or nothing about me, being public with both my successes and my failures, but this is a bit of both, and you can take from that what you will.



I&#039;ve already taken much from this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn't really asking for a job. I didn't need another job. I have three right now. I asked if he could beat my current situation. "Hat in hand" is an entirely wrong way of putting it. John knew he had a hill to overcome (my current situation) and continued to assure me that he could overcome it. The offer was woefully short of meeting let alone overcoming it.</p>
<p>I do have a high opinion of myself. I'm a smart guy. Should I go into anything in life thinking that I'm not worthy of being there? I'm good at what I do, and I'm passionate.</p>
<p>I'm also extremely hard on myself. You don't see that side very often, not on a blog anyway, but it's there, and anyone who knows me well at all has had to try to get me, at times, not to be so hard on myself. I'm honest and blunt, and never moreso than with myself.</p>
<p>I've taken myself to task for not saving the email for later review, but I'll also stand by what I wrote as what I was thinking at the time. I'm not one to dwell, and I'm certainly not skipping away from this without having learned anything. I don't know whether it says a lot or nothing about me, being public with both my successes and my failures, but this is a bit of both, and you can take from that what you will.</p>
<p>I've already taken much from this.</p>
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		<title>By: chuckers</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5530</link>
		<dc:creator>chuckers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 02:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5530</guid>
		<description>After reading your blog for a while, it is painfully obvious you have a rather high opinion of yourself.  Whether that opinion is misplaced or not would required getting to know you outside of this small pond of a blogsphere and dealing with you in real life.  



And, yes, we don&#039;t know very many of the specifics, just what you have written here.  So, look at this from our POV, if you can.



You asked for a job from a friend.  He provides you one.  It doesn&#039;t live up to your expectations (in fact, some apparent lying is occuring.)  Fine.  You are well within you rights to turn the job down.  But you should be polite about it.  If he wants details, provide them to him one-on-one (&quot;the numbers on paper were different than the ones out of your mouth&quot; etc.)



Afterall, you were the one with your hat in your hand asking for a job to begin with.  To be blunt, you did come across as a complete prick based solely on whatl you have posted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading your blog for a while, it is painfully obvious you have a rather high opinion of yourself.  Whether that opinion is misplaced or not would required getting to know you outside of this small pond of a blogsphere and dealing with you in real life.  </p>
<p>And, yes, we don't know very many of the specifics, just what you have written here.  So, look at this from our POV, if you can.</p>
<p>You asked for a job from a friend.  He provides you one.  It doesn't live up to your expectations (in fact, some apparent lying is occuring.)  Fine.  You are well within you rights to turn the job down.  But you should be polite about it.  If he wants details, provide them to him one-on-one ("the numbers on paper were different than the ones out of your mouth" etc.)</p>
<p>Afterall, you were the one with your hat in your hand asking for a job to begin with.  To be blunt, you did come across as a complete prick based solely on whatl you have posted.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Canfield</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job#comment-5529</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Canfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2003 02:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2003/11/02/declining_a_job/#comment-5529</guid>
		<description>Erik -- I think this email shows a lot about your character. If you didn&#039;t give a shit about your friend, you could just say no. Saying &quot;No, and here are the reasons why&quot; is a lot better for his company long term, even if he&#039;s mad now.



Good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik -- I think this email shows a lot about your character. If you didn't give a shit about your friend, you could just say no. Saying "No, and here are the reasons why" is a lot better for his company long term, even if he's mad now.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
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