I had an interesting discussion with my wife about obesity and how much is to blame on the individual. If you don't have a decease, is it just laziness to not get in shape? There are operations now, where they bypass parts of the stomach to make it ...

By attribution, I refer to the cognitive and affective attribution as to the cause of a situation. If a person attributes the cause to something outside of their control, well ... then there's nothing to do about it. However, if a personal attributes the cause to something within their locus of control ... hey, they'll at least try to fix it.

I guess there is one other factor involved: the setting of personal priorities. I'm a few pounds overweight right now, but my personal priority is to finish up my graduate degree. After that degree my increased weight will become more important to fix. (Of course, I personally attribute the cause of the excess weight to be within my personal control).

Yes, I get to make that decision. It's my blog.

Oh, and you are an absolute idiot.

There. ah. I feel much better now.

You can quote lame press snippets all you want. The thing you link to says "it's not necessary to be thin to be healthy." No, it's not necessary - but it sure does help! You've not listed any facts. It's not necessary to be tall to be a good basketball player, either. Doesn't mean you're gonna star in the NBA.

I'll be closing this discussion soon. Grow up (not out) and get your last two cents in, if it's even worth that much.

THAT'S where prejudice comes into play, Erik. That, and your weird assumption that I can't POSSIBLY be obese.

That, and your invalid assumption that size is an indicator of health. YOu've never had a thin friend who eats nothing but junk food? I find that odd.

The fact is not that we have not concluded scientifically that fat people are inherently unhealthy, but we have concluded capitalistically that it's not profitable to encourage people to maintain health at any size.

here's one study you might want to read.

Basically, I could say just about anything that I believe and then ascribe ill-health to those who don't practice what I preach...and I can probably find a study to back myself up, too. I commented here because I can't stand to see these fallacious myths about fat people reiterated and unchallenged. Go educate yourself, or continue to post misinformed tripe on a subject you know nothing about. The choice is yours.

Poor people are lazy?

Poor people, currently, are some of the most obese in the country. That's a fact. Poor diet, longer work hours - whatever the cause, the poorer you are the more likely you are to be fat.

It used to be the opposite, as I said.

Or are you saying this is not an issue of health or laziness but an issue of the current trends that dictate what people find desirable or attractive.

It is both. It is an issue of health, it's an issue of laziness and "having work to do," and it is an issue of the society in which we live. "Cherubic" women used to be attractive. Now, beanpoles are. That's neither right nor wrong - but the way it is. However, the science - what's healthy and what's not - is not really in question.

Obese students perform relatively (relative to thinner classmates) poorly on tests and in school. That is a fact as well.

Where have you seen prejudice?

It is not unhealthy to lose weight when you are obese. That's ridiculous. You have to lose the weight slowly - a pound or two a week - but people who lose weight in the end lead far healthier lives than those who remain, for lack of a better word, "huge."

You simply cannot ascertain someone's fitness by how fat or thin they are. You can't.

Yes, you can. To say otherwise is to ignore science, modern medicine, and common sense.

I didn't want to discuss bad eating habits because it's irrelevant. If you are obese, and you don't have a glandular problem or something else to cause it beyond your control, then you've got work to do. Whether that's changing your diet or exercising more, you have work to do. I have a horrible, horrible eating habit by some people's standards, but I probably exercise and work myself three times as hard as they may need to.

Obesity is the result of a lot of factors. Unless it's a glandular thing, again, then almost every one of those factors is probably under your control. Blaming parents, environment, work, etc. is just making excuses.

That's not prejudice. I've been friends with and have gotten along with a lot of overweight people. I care about them, and it saddens me that they're overweight because it isn't healthy for them. It's not "a good thing." I don't like that some of my friends smoke, either. Heck, I especially don't like that some of my friends are obese and smoke! That's not prejudice, I'm sorry.

Fat probably is experienced differently by women, young, old, black, white, etc... Probably every individual has an individualized experience with fat if they are overweight or obese.

I think that Erik's presumption about your weight is probably true. I doubt that you are now a 250 to 300+ pound woman. If you are, is this really due to pregancy? Obesity is the topic here, not simply being overweight, although I realize that both are grouped quite often.

Anonymous, I think that you are really on the right track. I agree with pretty much everything you said, and I wish that more people in the world had access to you or people who share your views and experience with this issue.

Gary, accepting others does not mean the same thing as sitting idly by without questioning their choices, lifestyle, thoughts and actions. I love and accepte obese people. I have obese friends that consider me a great friend in return. Will I accept this person? Yes, I already have. Do I need to accept obesity because of my great friendship with someone who is obese? No, not at all.

Please, please realize that although people do, at times, judge people of all walks and situations -- including the obese -- it does not follow that discussing obesity is judging an individual or a people-group.

Obesity is a problem. Obese people have this problem. IF they want to conquer their problem they have work to do. That is simple.

The sloppy mind comment is Erik's generalization about this population set, and he may have meant to be judgmental, but he could just as easily have been giving his number one reason as to why people should endeavor to do the work that they have to do to maintain a healthy weight.

Erik, I followed Gary's vanity argument. I think that it is pretty subtle, but I do see what he is saying. In fact, I am searching myself wondering if it applies to me.

I think it probably does. It probably applies to all of us at different levels. I'm not accusing you of anything heinous, because this seemed so subtle that it can pretty much apply to everyone, but I do think it is worth saying that pride, vanity, self-centeredness, and ego are things we should all keep a short leash on. (Sorry about the length.)

And how the hell would you know I'm "not obese" based on an internet discussion? Because I'm intelligent? Because someone was willing to fuck me enough for me to bear two children?

You have some issues with prejudice. That's all I'm saying. It's glaringly obvious. And you need to read facts with that in mind.

For instance, there really is no substantial evidence that obesity in and of itself is a disease. It is far more unhealthy to lose weight when you are fat than it is to just accept your body and strive to live a healthy lifestyle at any size. You simply cannot ascertain someone's fitness by how fat or thin they are. You can't. So your post here is completely based on your own prejudice towards fat people, because if you were really concerned with ill health in this country, you would have posted about bad eating and/or exercise habits and left size out of the equation completely.

"Some of those people lived in times when it was considered healthy to be larger. Fat = had money to buy good food. Poor people were thin back then. That's been reversed lately."

OK, so you are saying that it's only OK to be fat if you are wealthy? What, exactly, is your point? Poor people are lazy?

Or are you saying this is not an issue of health or laziness but an issue of the current trends that dictate what people find desirable or attractive.

If those many geniuses were alive today (and some of them are), would they be any less intelligent? Would their minds be "lazy" because it's currently unpopular to be fat?