Ammunition Comparison
Posted July 15th, 2004 @ 07:31pm by Erik J. Barzeski
Here is a picture that may shock you (and not because of the glass of straight up amaretto in the background):
What you see here are three bullets (and their casings). From the right, we have a CCI .22 LR Mini-Mag, used in my Ruger Mark II semiautomatic handgun with an UltraDot red dot scope. Next to it we find the standard 9mm Luger. Finally, far to the left, we see a .50 caliber round (yes, it's live) for use from a machine gun, primarily those mounted to helicopters and used in Vietnam or on today's Blackhawks. Lately, such bullets have been used for shooting competitions at 1,000 yards with 30 lb. rifles costing well over $2500.
The .22 means ".22 inches" and the bullet is a .22 caliber "long rifle" bullet. The description is as much marketing ("long rifle") as it is accurate (.22 caliber == .22 inches in this case). The 9mm Luger denotes both the size (9 mm = .354 in =~ .35 caliber) and the inventor (Luger), and most of my 9mm are 115 grain bullets (with smokeless powder). I shoot only FMJ (full-metal jacket) bullets, because I shoot indoors. Vaporized lead isn't the best thing to breathe in, I'm told. 
The .50 caliber bullet is just that: .5 inches in diameter. It has a few more grains of powder and, well, it'll put a hole in someone as easily as it'll simply tear their arm off.
Contrary to what you may think after having watched The Jackal, the rather weak .22 is the preferred ammunition for actual hitmen. The little stingers are rather quiet, and they usually lack the power to penetrate more than one bone. This simply means that after breaking through one side of the skull, the bullets will ricochet around inside of the skull, making mincemeat of the grey matter inside.
Posted 15 Jul 2004 at 9:26pm #
Who the hell has watched The Jackal?
Posted 15 Jul 2004 at 9:36pm #
The Mossad prefer small-calibre for hits; 6-8 men surround the target and shoot, then they all scatter. A dozen .22 hollowpoints will cause serious damage!
Posted 15 Jul 2004 at 11:37pm #
That's a big ass bullet!
Posted 16 Jul 2004 at 12:49am #
i, for one, have watched the jackal. : )
and although the .22 is definitely a popular round amongst assasins, another equally qualified candidate for the job is its slightly bigger brother, the .270. i happen to own such a rifle, and can attest to its incredible accuracy. the round, much like the .22, has a very flat trajectory, and doesnt drop noticeably even at distances of 400 yards.
eric, if you ever find the urge to purchase something with a little more punch, you should look at the S&W .50 cal magnum. now that's a hand cannon. kim du toit actually mentioned it some time last february:
http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P802
Posted 16 Jul 2004 at 8:05am #
forget the bullets - I want that mug!!
I keed I keeeed…
Coming from someone who hasn't shot very much, .22's are nice to shoot because of the basically non existant recoil - it's like shooting a pellet gun basically. Where as my Dad's Ingram Mac-10 kicks like a donkey. Fun times
Posted 16 Jul 2004 at 9:13am #
Quibbles.... Most Helo mounted machine guns in 'nam were M-60's in 7.62mm, not .50. Today's Army also mounts .50's on Humvees, and they aren't technically cleared for anti-personal duties.
Also not only are .22 cartridges quieter, but the bullets are also easier to slow to sub-sonic speeds, thus making them even quieter, if hampering their range.
I don't recall the details, but I've heard bad things about .50 S&W. I want to say that they slowed the bullet down too much, but I'm sketchy on that.
There's a definite sweet spot as far as bullet-size to charge size goes for the bullet power to Ease of shooting ratio. It's that ratio that prompted people in USPSA and other competitive tactical shooting realms to adopt the .38 Super. Personally I don't like the round, I don't like over charging things and I certainly don't like the 9mm bullet that it's derived from.
One last thing about FMJ and indoor ranges. It's not just about vaporized lead. Since indoor ranges have to have some kind of bullet trap. The ones I've seen have been rubbery, with a bucket-type thing underneath. The problem is when you shoot unjacketed ammo into the rubber-ish material it can 'blossom' and get caught, plus all that lead dust in the bucket underneath ain't the best thing for the people have to empty it either. Outdoor ranges you're leaving the lead in the ground, which probably isn't good either, but there seem to be fewer laws about that.
Posted 20 Aug 2004 at 11:42pm #
The myth about .50 cal ammunition being against the Geneva convention and only used to target vehicles or "equipment" ("I swear I was shooting at his belt!") is just that. A myth.
Posted 07 Mar 2006 at 7:21pm #
I would like to know the difference between .38, 380, and 9MM cartriges. Tks.
Posted 14 Mar 2006 at 2:42pm #
Dominican Republic in 65. Took a Lt's head (top half) and his helmet completly off. The helmet landed in the street fifty feet from myself and a couple others. 7 dead. shells broke cement blocks in half with enough punch to kill people behind them. Copter took out gun two minutes later. Tough! Just the regular dumb shit!
Posted 26 Nov 2006 at 6:56pm #
Are there different sizes in .22 cal. bullets??? We have a 22 and it keeps jamming someone told us it the length??? Just curios so if anyone know could you let us know. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 26 Dec 2006 at 8:56am #
1. To answer the .38 question, they are all the same bullet but have diffrent cases. a .38 is basically a .357 magnum without the powerful kick. .357 has much more powder behind it. People who have .357's often target shoot with .38 special cartridges. A .380 is a 9mm case that has been "necked down" or had it's case shortened to make it a .380. They are the same size essentially but the shape of each bullet varies by caliber designation.
2. There are differences between .22 bullets as well.
Look on the gun itself. .22LR is Long Rifle, .22S is Short, .22L is Long. There is also 22-250 which is a rifle case with a .22 bullet. Try diffrent ammo I use .22LR Reminton Golden bullets. High power less likelihood of a malfunction. Most likely you have a LR and are using underpowered ammo in your automatic.
Posted 30 Dec 2006 at 3:46pm #
Can i use 9mm bullets in my .380 pistol?
Posted 15 Jan 2007 at 9:39pm #
Chad, why they let you purchase a gun is beyond me. So, did you guys know that "rim-fire" came before "center-fire"? Also, that little .22lr that spits a 40 gr. bullet at around 1200 fps used to be considered a relatively "powerful" round? There were other "rim-fire" cartridges developed long before the .22lr.
Posted 22 Jan 2007 at 12:15pm #
Hmm. Well some are close. That is a Ma Duece round. It is for anything with metal bolted to it. It is against the Geneva Convention to be fired at personnel directly. A person investigated for the use of this weapon against a human stands to be persecuted under the Geneva Convention as a PIFWC (pif-wick) Person Indeited For War Crimes and CAN WIN AN ALL EXPENSE PAID VACATION TO THE HAGUE AND POSSIBLY COOBA. If you attempted to fire it with a hand gun you would snap your arms off at the shoulders. I Absolutely love those things as an ex Tanker. I was a gunner on M60A3's, M1Abrams, and M1A2's. Many a times at our tank tables we would shoot boars and deer with as many of those as we could. One of them will split a 12 point buck in half. I'm not exaggerating. Shoot a man 5 times with a 22 and he will be hurting. Shoot him with a .50 and part of him will be beside himself. .45's all the way!
Posted 06 Mar 2007 at 10:46am #
I am trying to figure out if they make a full metal jacket .22-250 that sales retail. And if they do where could I find it?
Posted 08 Mar 2007 at 5:10pm #
accually, its not a violation of any kind of rule to shoot anyone with a .50 cal round. think about it, if it was then why would there be a .50 cal sniper rifle?
Posted 10 Apr 2007 at 6:56pm #
wtf ...i must say that most of the post i read from this page may have been written by monkeys (with few ecceptions)...first and formost..a 380 and a 9 mm are not even realated except being a pistol bullet..NO NOT TRY TO SWAP AMMO IN THOSE GUNS...second as a marine sniper with 2/6 STA it is a bad thing to shoot someone with a 50 cal.and you can be punished as a war criminal....and as to the post ..accually, its not a violation of any kind of rule to shoot anyone with a .50 cal round. think about it, if it was then why would there be a .50 cal sniper rifle? the m82-a1 is not a SNIPER RIFLE the sasser as it is called with shooters is a precision rifle not a sniper rifle...it is intended to disable vehicles and even comm to towers generatoes etc. not people..but if there is no other way to protect a soldger other than a caliber .50 then the soldger can engage troops directly with the 50 cal.
Posted 07 Jun 2007 at 7:04pm #
You can't even spell "soldier"?! Is that the caliber of marine recruits these days?
Posted 08 Jun 2007 at 8:39pm #
duh, stupid, you are comparing the biggest rifle possible and the smallest rifle, a .50 cal and .22 cal, plus you got a .40 cal handgun bullet, dug there is going to be sort of a size difference
Posted 09 Jun 2007 at 1:02am #
Since when is it against anything to shoot an ememy with a .50 cal?? .50 cal sniper rifles are in use today....quite legally.
Posted 12 Jun 2007 at 6:57pm #
hey mat...where do i begin..it is a small and wasted mind that can only think of one way to spell a word....but never the less thank you for pointing out a simple spelling error.But unless you have anything helpful or smart or even reasonable funny it is better to have me assume you are a retard then to post a retarded comment such as the above and remove any doubt from my mind that you are a retard.now about the caliber of marines they produce these days...as a leader of men who put their life in the line everyday to give retards like you (mat)the freedom to be retarded and make dumb ass post like the above one...on numerious missions all of my marines came home including myself.some injuries some serious but we all came home and the bad guys died and the mission was completed. So i beg you to go talk to your local marine recruiter and sign up.and just see if you have what it takes to be one of the few and the proud and put your very life on the line and come home to have a punk ass correct you on a spelling error and judge the kind of person you are on that ...........simper fi
Posted 12 Jun 2007 at 7:00pm #
oh yea by the way..the barret is not considdered a sniper rifle...is is called the sasser and is a precision rifle because it does not shoot MOA. For a rifle to be a sniper rifle as marine standards it has to shoot MOA..if you dont know what that means you have no right to argue with me...good day to you all
Posted 13 Jun 2007 at 2:25pm #
I sometimes check on this page to see what the latest monkey has said about my last post and sometimes forget to read all of the ones befor it.but this time i read all of them...wtf i really think some of you are retards who have been taught to type in your special ed classes. for example...this dumb ass trying to compare a 22lr and it big brother the .270......lol wtf the only thing they have in common is the 2...not even close balisticly .....and to the dude who tries to say how the mossad works ..lol 6-8 people surrounding someone and then run away is bullshit...you have read to many 007 books and saw movies....really people..you people spewing bullshit from your little cum dumpsters are going to get someone hurt or killed....and for those who have actual questions...ask a local gunsmith or someone at your local gunstore..try to avoid getting information that may change your life from internet rant pages..guns and bullets are for one thing ..putting holes in things they dont know you dont know how or why they work they dont have any feelings they dont know you are ignorant about them and they will kill you
Posted 18 Jun 2007 at 2:13pm #
j8541, You have some good points, yet you lack the ability to properly deliver them.
wtf i really think some of you are retards who have been taught to type in your special ed classes.
If they all learned to type in their special ed classes, you need to sign up for one because they are all typing better than you.
you are on that ...........simper fi
Try Semper Fi dumas.
Posted 18 Jun 2007 at 5:50pm #
last i checked Jim..lol..this was not a typing 101 class...and i am glad that it realy doesnt matter how it is spelled as long as you get the idea..so my question to you sir is did you get the point? and with out doing a google search on the word semper fidelis i doubt you know what it means...so there for you have no righ nor place to correct me in its spelling
but i am glad that noone has the ability to correct me on ANYTHING but my spelling so to that sir i say......i have 99 problems and and a bitch aint one...aka you ..lol
Posted 19 Jun 2007 at 3:18pm #
j8541 you are nothing but a head strong gun slinging yank who has not the time of day to educate others in the matter of fire arms. If you loose yourself control so quickly and shout the odds to people who are trying to clear up matters of which they are unsure about, shows how much an immature testosterone jumped up little shit you must be, correct them by all means but try not to shout the odds against them. Yes the world is full of retards and most of them say stupid tings as seen in this page but you should set an example and not lower yourself as you have done or is that the “marine wayâ€
Posted 03 Jul 2007 at 6:00pm #
well my dear sir....you bring up an interesting point.....well to me anyway....the fact that i have to lower myself no matter how much to even reply to comments made by most of the people who post on this forum....including but not limited to youself...And for the record the marine way is to locate...close with...and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver or to repell the enemys assault by fire and close combat.
in the world we live in and the laws that govern the great united states i live in i am unable to do so with the enemy being stupidity...it would make a lot of people angry if stupidity was punishable by death for the population of the world would be greatly reduced...so i battle the enemy with what ever means necessary...if it seems harsh to you and you get you feelings hurt over my comments...dont read them.my tactics and methods work.marines have come home to mommy or suzy because of them.and remember that i did not get paid for my methods i was paid for my results.
good day to you sir.
Posted 09 Jul 2007 at 7:44pm #
j8541, I Have a question on what to use in my .223 rifle for shooting racoons and other small game. So far i have a couple ideas. 50-Grain Silvertip Ballistic Tip, 55-Grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and 55-Grain Speer TNT. What do you think would work better?
Posted 09 Jul 2007 at 9:43pm #
zach....
To answer your question i have to know if you plan to eat the game or just doing pest extermination .And befor you ask yes you can eat racoon and yes i have eaten it. So to address the question if you plan to just kill the little boogers. A .223 (5.56mm) is an extremly potent bullet for small to even fairly large game,not like bears or elephants and such but i have put plenty of dear in the freezer with a .223 and lets not forget that there are people getting shot and killed in iraq everyday with the little bullet.so i have to say that there is no bad choice for the pest problem. I do advise that you take your rifle to the range and get a good solid zero and then test fire a few different types of ammo in your rifle to see what she likes. Every gun is different even two identical rifles may like different ammo. Take the one with the smallest group and use it. I really doubt you have to worry about getting a good kill on such game as coons and the like with a .223 if you are shooting at under 100 yards. And i cant forsee a coon being shot even that far away, but it would kill it past 100 yards mind you. But to use a 223 on game the size of coons and smaller if you plan to eat them is a little excessive.I would use a .22 or that bad ass .17 mk II or HMR or even a .22 mag
Posted 15 Jul 2007 at 10:47am #
Thanks
Posted 19 Jul 2007 at 10:00pm #
Sirs,
I should not take the time to insert myself into this but I am afraid that I will in any case. First, to J8541:
Marine, many of your points are valid, and I cannot help but agree with your assessment of Stupidity as the enemy. However, your unfortunately poor grammatical and typographical skills--in addition to your firebrand temper--are giving your opponents opportunity to mock not only you but also the Corps. However, I thank you for your service to our Country and the protection of our freedom. And speaking not as a Marine but as a close friend of a Marine (whose commissioning I had the honor of observing this past May) I say: Semper Fi! (Always Faithful)
Next, I must turn my attention to Viking. Sir, you attempt to wax eloquent, but your grammar is atrocious and you are redundant. You give vikings a bad name, and as an American of Norwegian descent, I must dissent! (Bad pun, I know) Additionally, while correcting a Marine is no problem (and the Marine should have the good grace to accept correction, even if unwarranted), to insult a Marine is dangerous, for you insult also his Corps and those of us who support it. Personally, I am most grateful for those "headstrong, gun-slinging yanks" who, often by sheer force of will, have kept this country free.
These things being said, you shall hear from me no more, unless it be on the topic around which this forum ought to center, that being ammunition.
Valete
Posted 22 Jul 2007 at 10:00pm #
Hello again Gentlemen,
I do have a tendency to dangle a participle or two. I also have a tendency to use incomplete sentences to express a complete thought. Neither of these things, which have been so eloquently expressed by JV, deviates from one vital fact: I am still correct.
However, at this point I have a question on the topic of ammunition. I am in the market to acquire another pistol. I am getting a Glock, but I am torn between the Glock 21 .45 ACP or the new Glock 37 .45 GAP. I've owned a 21, and loved it but the back strap was a little big for me. It shot well and I shot well with it but I've heard some pretty impressive things about the GAP. I do believe, though, that it will be difficult for me to stray away from the ACP.
If anyone has one of each I would love to get your feedback.
I am looking at the 21 SF too. Maybe I'll just get that one.
Oooh Rahh.
Posted 03 Aug 2007 at 10:41am #
j8541,
While the Marine Corps may have prohibited you from engaging enemy personnel with a .50 cal rifle, the fact is that there is not one line in the laws of land warfare that pertains to what calibers you are not allowed to use. You should read it before you quote it.
Secondly, you immediately began lashing out at everyone with your bad grammar and atrocious spelling. Literate people tend to make a far more compelling argument when the argument is written.
Lastly, being a marine alone does not make you right. I'm a soldier who has done 2 tours in Iraq and I can attest to the marine mentality. We learned about that one night in Mosul when a group of marines shot the hell out of one of OUR convoys. Their logic seemed to be "What's that? I don't know, but it's moving so let's kill it"
I'm not impressed.
Posted 06 Aug 2007 at 9:59pm #
its true my brother was shot twice in the left arm during that "firefight". i thank you for the advice and i have chosen the the nosler ballistic silvertip rounds but know this: I never understood Marines they think that because they are better trained they are better than the other armed forces but they are inferior to the others in skill and firepower. do not take this personally it directed at those who think this.
Posted 06 Aug 2007 at 10:00pm #
and i own a glock 37 and suggest the use of this for all around shooting
Posted 15 Aug 2007 at 10:22pm #
joe
LOL...no really i did...you amuse me boy.You are right though being a marine alone does not make me right...being right makes me right....GOD HAS A HARD ON FOR MARINES...BECAUSE WE KILL EVERYTHING WE SEE.AND WE KEEP HEAVEN PACKED FULL OF FRESH SOULS.
now as to your convoy....shit happens.when a man goes to combat his brain turns to water and runs out his ears...not funny but it happens.there is several factors that goes along with things like that..like marines and other ground troops not having the same com freqs and therefor not being able to talk to one another.people getting lost in a place where everything looks the same.bad things happen to good people.and when you put guns in the hands of kids who joined the military for school money things get fucked up fast
now if you have anything to say other than i miss spell sometimes in haste to get a point across do so but other than that..go file some papers or count something on your next drill meeting.
Posted 15 Aug 2007 at 10:33pm #
and zach
have fun at the range and answer me one question...how can someone as a group be better trained and not be better than one who is not trained as well. Do me a favor and look up how many times the other branches are called upon to recover a downed pilot. or do an amphibious assault on a beach head. How many famous army snipers have books written about them. And look up how many times in history the marines have bailed the army out or a fire fight. Find out why the marines are called AMERICAS 911. Why marines are always the first ones to answer the call to arms. Why you are in the army in the airforce in the navy but you ARE a marine.why when people wash out or marine boot camp..the go to the army and do well.so go do your home work and then post something.shoot well and good luck.
Posted 16 Aug 2007 at 11:12pm #
j8541 I was in 3/6 w co right next door. Don't waste your breath trying to explain what its like being in the corps. They just won't understand. I never heard about the convoy that Marines shot up, but there is a good chance they were doing something to make themselves look different or not quite right. Also its possible they were reservists and not as well trained. Marines own Anbar, the most bad guys = the most capable branch. Btw when the army sent out their high speed units we were tasked as their cavalry. Not the army but the Marines. Regarding the glock, I love the 17 but in higher loads I'm not a fan. You should take a look at Steyr, they don't have it in .45 but the 357 sig is an ass kicker and it costs about a $100 less. Awesome sights and ergonomics and it was designed by an engineer who left glock. Also their service department was thorough and prompt in installing an 8 lb trigger.
Posted 22 Aug 2007 at 12:50am #
j8541,
Bravo on your ability to quote a movie that millions have seen. Very original. The fact that you quoted that line of it shows an utter lack of discipline that is apparently inherit to the Corps, if your comment is any indication. Sorry, still not impressed. As for my convoy, nobody was lost and our vehicles bore very little resemblence to Iraqi vehicles. Your remark about putting guns in the hands of kids who joined the military for school money tells me that even the big, bad Marines are not immune to problems that plague the Army. Also, I am active Army and Infantry. Not some clerk or National Guard so once again, you have stuck your foot in your mouth.
P.S. It's misspell, not "miss spell". Therefore, not "Therefor". You put two (2) spaces after a period. You also capitalize the first letter of a sentence. Try using proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. That in conjunction with knowing what you're talking about will help you make a more compelling argument.
Posted 29 Aug 2007 at 12:31pm #
stfu joe, and J8, i have found that u r right and i overreacted a little bit and yes it is true that 37 marine snipers are in books and only 4 army snipers have that honor.
SEMPER FI,
Zach
Posted 29 Aug 2007 at 12:37pm #
the only time army or navy pilots ever recovered their own downed pilots was in WWII in the european theater. they had no choice because marines were trapped under enemy fire in Bordeux.
Zach
Posted 07 Sep 2007 at 2:02am #
Why should I stfu, Zach? I was only offering a little constructive criticism, not trying to start an interservice pissing contest.
Posted 08 Sep 2007 at 10:35am #
Gentlemen:
As one who stopped at this site see what you have to teach about ammunition, I am not impressed. Please stop arguing about who has the biggest dick and stick to the stated topic, ammunition comparison.
Posted 11 Sep 2007 at 4:53pm #
+1 Neighborcat
I was kinda hoping that someone could offer an intelligent opinion on the pros and cons of the 7mm Rem Mag for deer hunting and general target shooting, but it seems that this site is dedicated to the measurement of genitalia (and perhaps amateur spell checking).
Posted 13 Sep 2007 at 9:41pm #
The 7mm Mag is a good round in general. It's powerful, accurate, and more available and less expensive than some other esoteric calibers. Some friends of mine in Arkansas had them and had no complaints about their performance.
Posted 18 Sep 2007 at 1:40am #
What is the differnece between a 30-06 and a .308
Posted 21 Sep 2007 at 4:08am #
I manage a large sheep staiton in South Australia and am looking to purchase a high posered rifle for feral animal control. We have a big problem with feral goats, pigs and over-population of Kangaroos - now before you start getting wierd about shooting our national emblem, these roos cause incredible damage to fences, yards, troughs and watering points, competing with livestock and driving up prices for you the consumer - anyway, we are not looking to eradicate kangaroos, but to reduce their numbers to an acceptable level that is set by the Australian Pastoral Board. Enough of that!
I want to comapre hunting rifles in the capacities of 22/250, 222, 223 (5.65mm), 308 (7.62mm) and 30-30. I need stopping power and accuracy up to about 150 metres, with consideration to cost per shot and reloading. Can anyone give an intelligent and reasonable response, preferably with some real knowledge about these calibres and reloading or can you suggest a more suitable round?
Thank you gentlemen.
Posted 24 Sep 2007 at 12:49am #
Roger, the difference between the 30/06 and the .308 is nothing more than length of the cartridge. The .308 is a 7.62 by 51 millimeter. The 30/06 is a 7.62 by 63 millimeter. The 30/06 got its name from being a .30 caliber rifle cartridge designed in 1906.
Posted 06 Oct 2007 at 4:22am #
Anybody here know anything about Alaska Backpacker Ammo? There is no address on the package and I have not been able to find anything out about it online.
Thanks,
-Joe
Posted 12 Oct 2007 at 10:11am #
Well, outside of the entertaining exchanges I've read that date a few months back, this has been an interesting blog.
It sounds like many of you, like me, might find this site to be very helpful:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/
They have lots of good info on long range guns and shooting but the info on ammo was interesting as well. And I'm thinking of purchasing a .308 from this company:
http://tacproshootingcenter.com/Accuracy_International.html
I've considered a .50 cal, but that would represent more of a much more expensive toy than anything practical, for my purposes.
Anyone got any suggestions for high quality, accurate ammo for the .308 - brands, types, grains, etc.?
Posted 17 Oct 2007 at 10:01pm #
Jack,
As you include feral pigs in your pest eradication list, I would exclude the .222. All of the other cals are fine with proper projectiles & bullet placement. If the ferals are moving & there are a lot of 'em : a Marlin 336 in 30/30 or even better a Rem 760 pump in 308 are effective and can be loaded economically.
A reliable, low-powered variable 'scope (2-7 X) will give you all the flexibility & precision you need from 15 to 200 yds.
I have hunted the afore-mentioned pests across S.A. , Qld & N.S.W. for the past 30 years, so I can appreciate your local conditions & constrictions (John Howards gun laws).
Jack, for a more detailed response, you can contact me directly.
Posted 30 Oct 2007 at 10:04pm #
Hello again ladies and gents,
As to the gent who wants to know what to shoot pigs and roos and such with I have this suggestion. I feel you should find a rifle you are comfortable shooting and that you can shoot well regardless of the caliber, within reason of course. I as an avid hunter and shooter feel that shot placement is much more important than the size of the bullet you shoot. If you are shooting a .50 cal at a pig and miss you still miss, but if you have a gun you are comfortable with and you can shoot it well the size of the bullet is less important than where the bullet goes. I personally have killed white tail deer with a 22 mag, and hogs as well, but you have to be close.
So go buy a gun with low recoil and ammo you can afford to shoot a lot ( like a Remington 700 in 223 or a 308 ) and shoot the little bastards in the head or neck, both have good downrange performance and cost per bullet is low.
Posted 01 Nov 2007 at 12:02am #
Jack,
j8541 is right, caliber should be a secondary consideration. It's the man, not the machine. If you're thinking of availability, the .243, 308, 30-30, and the 30/06 are some of the most popular calibers and have proven themselves time and time again. Another option is a 12 guage with slugs. You should be able to get a slug barrel that can fire slugs out to ranges of up to 200 meters. And 12 guage is quite common.
Posted 01 Nov 2007 at 8:09pm #
What are some accurate 7.62x51mm (.308) manufacturers?
I have one of 1000 Remington M40 Replicas that they produced last year with a replica ART scope made by Leatherwood. and a Leupold Mark 4.
I'm thinking some military surplus, but only in above 168grain, preferably 172-175 grain. It's cheaper cost/round and I won't have to purchase it that often because it comes in mass quantities. I'm not looking to shoot it in any matches, it is just for hunting deer and shooting random stuff with.
Yes, I know I could opt for getting other less expensive 7.62x51mm, but I would rather shoot nice ammunition through my M40.
Posted 01 Nov 2007 at 10:41pm #
Mike,
First of all, congratulations on buying one of those repros. Now let me tell you how to get the most out of it. As an avid shooter I take shooting very seriously and I assume you do to. There are two ways to look at this, I will address them one at a time going from the best to close to best. First way is to buy some bullets with good brass and just burn a box or two through the weapon ,collect the brass and use a bench rest neck resizing tool but do not resize the whole case, this custom fits the brass to your gun specifically, then reload them as you normally would. Every round we shot (except in a combat situation) was collected and shipped back to Quantico Va. And reloaded for our specific rifle by marines who all they did was work on sniper rifles all day. the second and probably the easiest way is to go to a gun store and buy a box or every type .308 ammo they have. Take the weapon to the range and shoot a group or two from each box and see what your rifle likes. Find the one that gives you the best group and use it. It is odd but true that two of the same model rifles built on the same day by the same person will perform differently with the same ammo. Some good ones to try are black hills, hornady, federal premium and Remington, just to name a few.
That gun with good ammo is quite capable of shooting straighter than you can hold it in most situations. While with STA we all could put 5 shots on target at 1000 yards on a standard silhouette qualification target.
This is just my professional opinion and is subject to scrutiny from anyone, but it works for me and I shoot a lot and I buy a lot of guns so go give either one a chance and let me know how it turns out for you
P.S. I forgot to mention to make you shoot from a good bench rest to remove as much human error from the equation as possible, at as close to 100 yards as possible. That way you know that the results are from the ammo not the shooter. good luck
Posted 01 Dec 2007 at 2:39pm #
Has anyone had a field test of the new Hornady Leverlution (I think that's right, I see a few guys have gotten drilled for grammer here) ammunition for the 30-30 yet? I bought a couple of boxes and haven't had time to try them out. A bit expensive at $20.00 a box (VS the normal $11.50 for 170 grain Winchester ammo) so I was curious if they lived up to the hype. The ammo is supposed to make the 30-30 comparable in accuracy to the .270 at 200 yards or so the clerk told me.
If I get some time off, I will try them out and post the feedback.
By the way I was active Army for eight years, and in my opinion all the armed forces have some issues but all have there place in the bigger picture -VICTORY- in a god forsaken country that hates us.
Posted 01 Dec 2007 at 3:32pm #
The ammo is actually called Leverevolution by Hornady before I get jumped about it. The shells are 160 grain and the web-site said the zero drop is 175 yards for the 30-30. The clerk said 200 yards, but I guessing maybe a half inch for the other 25. Unlike most people I actually buy my ammunition from a gun store, I think the clerks at Wallmart are underpaid and overworked. I am curious what the forum comes up with about this ammo. Also I have an HMR 17, and I was just curious if anyone else love this little rifle as much as I do.
Posted 05 Dec 2007 at 11:59pm #
I've been thinking about getting a .17 HMR. How are they? Seems like they'd be fun and inexpensive and would probably wreak havoc on squirrels.
Posted 06 Dec 2007 at 1:02am #
.22 works just as well.
Posted 08 Dec 2007 at 12:24am #
Hammer Man, Please let me know how that Leverevolution ammo works out for you. I'm getting a 45/70 soon and would like to know how it performs. Thanks.
Posted 13 Dec 2007 at 9:55pm #
Hey kids
Hammer …..I have done a lot of reasearch on those hornady bullets (lever doo dads)and from what I have heard they seem to be great bullets. With them being a spitzer bullet instead of a flat or round end bullet means that they will be longer and have to be seated farther in the case to keep over all length, they should have a grerater bullet coefecient than their flat or round end counterparts. As far as how they will shoot ….hornady don't usually make junk and I have never had them preform badly in any of my weapons …so if you kill something with them I guess they work……sadly I don't have a weapon that is chambered in any of the calibers they currently offer, but would love to have a good lever 45-70
Good luck and happy shooting
As far as the 17 issue..i had one, i jumped on the 17 band waggon. I had a heavy barrel savage bolt gun with all the bells and whistles and some pretty nice glass on it...it shot extreemly well..with average groups at 50 yards almost the same hole. But shooting small game with it was no more efficent than my 10/22. They were just as dead as with the .17. Me being me i shot the .17 weekly and everytime i would put at least 200 rounds through it a weekend..well at 13 dollars per 50 it got real expensive...so I sold it but it was fun and i would not tell anyone not to buy one it is just that my 22 kills fuzzytails and the like just as dead as the 17 and alot cheaper too
Posted 14 Dec 2007 at 2:09am #
Thanks for the advice. Maybe I won't get one, then
Posted 14 Dec 2007 at 2:10am #
I meant the .17.
Posted 18 Dec 2007 at 9:40am #
I just wanted to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy New Year before I go on vacation for a week. Thanks for the info about the Hornady ammo. I just have to tell you all that the guys are right about the 22 Long Rifle working just as well, but I own a Stevens 22 (semi), a Mossburg 22 mag (bolt) and the Marlin 17 HMR (bolt), but when I go squirrel hunting I just LOVE using the 17. Maybe because it's newer. Go figure.
However, if Santa Clause is out there and he gives a crap about the Hammer Man, he knows I have been eye balling the dickins out of this Browning, lever action 30-06 at my local gun store. It's not new but its a sweety. Be good, be safe and happy holidays to all you gun lovin peeps out there.
Posted 03 Mar 2008 at 4:09pm #
Hey kids its me again...
I am looking to buy a ruger mk model and was wondering if any of you had one you were willing to part with. Condition is not an issue as long as it functions. Finish and barrel length is not an issue either. So if you have one leave a comment and i will give you my e mail address...oh yea i am looking to spend around $150.00 -$175.00