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	<title>Comments on: RSS and Copyright</title>
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	<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright</link>
	<description>The Weblog of Erik J. Barzeski</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RSS and Copyright Continued &#124; NSLog();</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13591</link>
		<dc:creator>RSS and Copyright Continued &#124; NSLog();</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13591</guid>
		<description>Over the weekend, it came to my attention that a site (I won't link to them, or even mention their name) was re-publishing content from The Sand Trap's RSS feed, sans author and copyright information. The summary text, often with...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the weekend, it came to my attention that a site (I won't link to them, or even mention their name) was re-publishing content from The Sand Trap's RSS feed, sans author and copyright information. The summary text, often with...</p>
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		<title>By: Chesslinks Worldwide</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13590</link>
		<dc:creator>Chesslinks Worldwide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13590</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;RSS copyright controversy still raging&lt;/strong&gt;

On my way home I turned on the Tablet PC at Oakland International Airport. WiFi here costs $7 on Wayport. I see that the RSS copyright story is still raging. Here's a few I just saw come through my aggregator....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>RSS copyright controversy still raging</strong></p>
<p>On my way home I turned on the Tablet PC at Oakland International Airport. WiFi here costs $7 on Wayport. I see that the RSS copyright story is still raging. Here's a few I just saw come through my aggregator....</p>
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		<title>By: jixor</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13589</link>
		<dc:creator>jixor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13589</guid>
		<description>[Ed: author makes argument "if you don't want people to scan your books and resell them online, don't write books." Comment removed. This (stupid) point has been offered before.]



&lt;!-- Yeah I also was going to say that if the providers made it clear that they did not create the content I think that it should be fair use even commercially as the content has been made public. I really do feel that an online aggregator is basically just a targeted search engine. If the author wishes more control over their content they should make that explicitly obvious my implementing measures along these lines. Not making their content seemingly freely available only to decide they don't with to grant the degree of freedom that they apparently have. Meaning don't publish an rss feed and demand control over what people do with the content beyond claiming it to be their own, using it in a defamatory manor, etc. Even then accept that you published the rss feed in the first place. All I'm asking for is rational thought. --&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Ed: author makes argument "if you don't want people to scan your books and resell them online, don't write books." Comment removed. This (stupid) point has been offered before.]</p>
<p><!-- Yeah I also was going to say that if the providers made it clear that they did not create the content I think that it should be fair use even commercially as the content has been made public. I really do feel that an online aggregator is basically just a targeted search engine. If the author wishes more control over their content they should make that explicitly obvious my implementing measures along these lines. Not making their content seemingly freely available only to decide they don't with to grant the degree of freedom that they apparently have. Meaning don't publish an rss feed and demand control over what people do with the content beyond claiming it to be their own, using it in a defamatory manor, etc. Even then accept that you published the rss feed in the first place. All I'm asking for is rational thought. --></p>
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		<title>By: Erik J. Barzeski</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13588</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik J. Barzeski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13588</guid>
		<description>Umm, Rod, your point being&#8230; what? Cuz my point was that robots.txt allows me to stop Google from indexing my site if I wanted to. No such option exists with Bloglines. Additionally, search engines are inherently different than sites like Bloglines. So too are Web pages vs. XML feeds.



But what kind of argument can I expect from someone who emails me to say:



&lt;blockquote&gt;Go fuck yourself, you tedious DaveWinerWannabe cunt.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Mmmmm&#8230; I'll pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, Rod, your point being&hellip; what? Cuz my point was that robots.txt allows me to stop Google from indexing my site if I wanted to. No such option exists with Bloglines. Additionally, search engines are inherently different than sites like Bloglines. So too are Web pages vs. XML feeds.</p>
<p>But what kind of argument can I expect from someone who emails me to say:</p>
<p class="quote_header"><a href="http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-">Erik J. Barzeski said</a> on January 17, 2005:</p>
<blockquote cite="http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-"><p>Go fuck yourself, you tedious DaveWinerWannabe cunt.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Mmmmm&hellip; I'll pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Begbie</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13587</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Begbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13587</guid>
		<description>Erik - read the link in my post. There is nothing in the robots.txt spec that specifies *anything* about how the data should be used.



If I wrote a spider that downloads every page on this site, ROT13s it, then pipes it to /dev/null, you'd (rightfully) be pissed off if I ignored robots.txt. I'd be wasting your bandwidth.  That's what robots.txt is there to protect.



Robots.txt is not designed for the case where a user-agent (whether fat client on a PC, or a service on a remote server) requests one file on a scheduled basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik - read the link in my post. There is nothing in the robots.txt spec that specifies *anything* about how the data should be used.</p>
<p>If I wrote a spider that downloads every page on this site, ROT13s it, then pipes it to /dev/null, you'd (rightfully) be pissed off if I ignored robots.txt. I'd be wasting your bandwidth.  That's what robots.txt is there to protect.</p>
<p>Robots.txt is not designed for the case where a user-agent (whether fat client on a PC, or a service on a remote server) requests one file on a scheduled basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Bud Landry</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13586</link>
		<dc:creator>Bud Landry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13586</guid>
		<description>If you buy the book "Cult of Mac" chances are you have seen some of the stories somewhere before, perhaps surfing or reading a newsfeed aggregator.



In this situation, the content has been repackaged for profit. 



If BlogLines starts selling ads, someone buy an ad on BlogLines, selling their newsfeed reader, educating those reading BlogLines they can be their own editor.  Or buy an ad touting Creative Commons.



Engadget pumps ads into their feeds, making the content LESS usable, for keyword searching for example.



Erik is right, Bloglines is wrong..



I don't even want to use a service like Blogger to host a possible blog I might fancy, because it seems so tied in to a possibly for profit service (Google? Yahoo?) that I am afraid it will be caged off somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you buy the book "Cult of Mac" chances are you have seen some of the stories somewhere before, perhaps surfing or reading a newsfeed aggregator.</p>
<p>In this situation, the content has been repackaged for profit. </p>
<p>If BlogLines starts selling ads, someone buy an ad on BlogLines, selling their newsfeed reader, educating those reading BlogLines they can be their own editor.  Or buy an ad touting Creative Commons.</p>
<p>Engadget pumps ads into their feeds, making the content LESS usable, for keyword searching for example.</p>
<p>Erik is right, Bloglines is wrong..</p>
<p>I don't even want to use a service like Blogger to host a possible blog I might fancy, because it seems so tied in to a possibly for profit service (Google? Yahoo?) that I am afraid it will be caged off somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik J. Barzeski</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13585</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik J. Barzeski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13585</guid>
		<description>Rod, Roger (who still can't figure out how to spell my name), two words for each of you.



1. CONSUMPTION

2. RE-PUBLICATION



They're not the same.



PulpFiction doesn't respect robots.txt because PulpFiction doesn't re-publish. It merely consumes. Bloglines re-publishes (takes credit for, makes money from, etc.) and does so without the creator's permission.



Roger insists that I "think again" that Google doesn't re-publish my feed content. I'd like Roger to find the spot on Google where my feed content is re-published. Not my Web content - my feed content.



I'd also like Roger to note that if I wanted to block Google, I could. The power still rests in my hands to control how my content is handled. I still have the ability and power as creator of copyrighted material to say what Google can and cannot do. No such power exists with Bloglines - they automatically assume they're free to rape creative content for their own benefit, regardless of license or copyright.



Consumption. Re-publication. Big difference, guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rod, Roger (who still can't figure out how to spell my name), two words for each of you.</p>
<p>1. CONSUMPTION</p>
<p>2. RE-PUBLICATION</p>
<p>They're not the same.</p>
<p>PulpFiction doesn't respect robots.txt because PulpFiction doesn't re-publish. It merely consumes. Bloglines re-publishes (takes credit for, makes money from, etc.) and does so without the creator's permission.</p>
<p>Roger insists that I "think again" that Google doesn't re-publish my feed content. I'd like Roger to find the spot on Google where my feed content is re-published. Not my Web content - my feed content.</p>
<p>I'd also like Roger to note that if I wanted to block Google, I could. The power still rests in my hands to control how my content is handled. I still have the ability and power as creator of copyrighted material to say what Google can and cannot do. No such power exists with Bloglines - they automatically assume they're free to rape creative content for their own benefit, regardless of license or copyright.</p>
<p>Consumption. Re-publication. Big difference, guys.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Begbie</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13584</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Begbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13584</guid>
		<description>To pick up on one small point, Does PulpFiction support robots.txt?



Bloglines has no need to, according to robotstxt.org who define a robot as &lt;a href="http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html#what"&gt;A robot is a program that automatically traverses the Web's hypertext structure by retrieving a document, and recursively retrieving all documents that are referenced.&lt;/a&gt;.  There is no automatic traversal involved.



Rod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To pick up on one small point, Does PulpFiction support robots.txt?</p>
<p>Bloglines has no need to, according to robotstxt.org who define a robot as <a href="http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html#what">A robot is a program that automatically traverses the Web's hypertext structure by retrieving a document, and recursively retrieving all documents that are referenced.</a>.  There is no automatic traversal involved.</p>
<p>Rod.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Benningfield</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13583</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Benningfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13583</guid>
		<description>Eric: "...but it's clear that they're violating the law."



Microsoft takes in your HTML, reconfigures it, strips parts, modifies the display, and sends it on to be viewed by hundreds of thousands of paying MSNTV users. Just as Earthlink's proxy compresses the JPG of your company logo, modifying its appearance while allowing dial-up users to download it faster. Corporate firewalls examine your content, strip anything they don't like, and cache the results, doling them out to hundreds (or in some cases, thousands) of users.



The Web's entire infrastructure violates any self-servingly rigid interpretation of copyright, every second of every day. The caches, proxies, and firewalls of the world take in content, archive it, alter it, and make it available to others. That's the way this whole thing was designed, that's why it works. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to opt out of the Web. (Or begin panting breathlessly about suing Cisco, Microsoft, most of the Fortune 500, and so on.)



Ditto for syndication and RSS. The technology is designed to enable services like Bloglines to do precisely what services like Bloglines do. If you don't like that, RSS is not for you.



"Google doesn't re-publish my feed content."



Ummm... think again. Do a Google search for your site and click the "cached" link... Google does quite a bit more than simply republish your some text. It republishes your layout, too.



"Also, Google respects my robots.txt file - something Bloglines (et al) do not."



A marginally useful point. I say "marginally" because robots.txt was not designed to restrict single page accesses by applications under human control... its purpose was to limit the automated link crawling of spiders. Bloglines isn't obligated to act as if they're Google, or even YahooFeedSeeker.



But it probably wouldn't hurt if aggregators (including desktop apps) supported robots.txt. It would give site owners another tool in controlling the RSS Bandwidth Monster... they could just disallow the most popular clients during peak traffic periods.



"In no way should a search that turns up my content provide a bloglines URL."



Another arguably valid point, and one easily addressed by "noindex,follow" meta tags. The content isn't indexed by Google, but the author gets the full benefit of the aggregator's Google juice. Unfortunately, Bloglines doesn't *appear* to be including such meta tags at this time... their bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric: "...but it's clear that they're violating the law."</p>
<p>Microsoft takes in your HTML, reconfigures it, strips parts, modifies the display, and sends it on to be viewed by hundreds of thousands of paying MSNTV users. Just as Earthlink's proxy compresses the JPG of your company logo, modifying its appearance while allowing dial-up users to download it faster. Corporate firewalls examine your content, strip anything they don't like, and cache the results, doling them out to hundreds (or in some cases, thousands) of users.</p>
<p>The Web's entire infrastructure violates any self-servingly rigid interpretation of copyright, every second of every day. The caches, proxies, and firewalls of the world take in content, archive it, alter it, and make it available to others. That's the way this whole thing was designed, that's why it works. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to opt out of the Web. (Or begin panting breathlessly about suing Cisco, Microsoft, most of the Fortune 500, and so on.)</p>
<p>Ditto for syndication and RSS. The technology is designed to enable services like Bloglines to do precisely what services like Bloglines do. If you don't like that, RSS is not for you.</p>
<p>"Google doesn't re-publish my feed content."</p>
<p>Ummm... think again. Do a Google search for your site and click the "cached" link... Google does quite a bit more than simply republish your some text. It republishes your layout, too.</p>
<p>"Also, Google respects my robots.txt file - something Bloglines (et al) do not."</p>
<p>A marginally useful point. I say "marginally" because robots.txt was not designed to restrict single page accesses by applications under human control... its purpose was to limit the automated link crawling of spiders. Bloglines isn't obligated to act as if they're Google, or even YahooFeedSeeker.</p>
<p>But it probably wouldn't hurt if aggregators (including desktop apps) supported robots.txt. It would give site owners another tool in controlling the RSS Bandwidth Monster... they could just disallow the most popular clients during peak traffic periods.</p>
<p>"In no way should a search that turns up my content provide a bloglines URL."</p>
<p>Another arguably valid point, and one easily addressed by "noindex,follow" meta tags. The content isn't indexed by Google, but the author gets the full benefit of the aggregator's Google juice. Unfortunately, Bloglines doesn't *appear* to be including such meta tags at this time... their bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright#comment-13582</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nslog.com/2005/01/16/rss_and_copyright/#comment-13582</guid>
		<description>It isn't an issue about profit. You can choose not to make a profit on your copyrighted work and still have valid reasons not to permit unauthorized publication. Just because you get it for free doesn't mean you have any rights to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn't an issue about profit. You can choose not to make a profit on your copyrighted work and still have valid reasons not to permit unauthorized publication. Just because you get it for free doesn't mean you have any rights to it.</p>
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