Comments on: Broken Garage Door Torsion Spring http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring The Weblog of Erik J. Barzeski Wed, 23 May 2012 23:05:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Warren http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-69951 Warren Sun, 15 Apr 2012 17:34:16 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-69951 Well, Mike, I can tell by your long list of degrees and references that you are qualified to make this comment! What I DON'T understand is your rage and contempt for the garage door proffessional. Beings that you appear to be the "expert" on this matter, why don't you "educate" us "unskilled" garage door professionals? After all, isn't that what this blog is here for, to inform each other of things to look out for and the scams? My analysis of your situation is that you got burned, and you want to take it out on ALL professionals! I know I speak for the majority when I say the larger percent of professionals give you what you pay for. They CAN change out springs in MUCH less than an hour and a half, and give the door a complete tune up, total inspection of ALL hardware, and make sure your opener is reversing as it is supposed to, up, and down. Making sure the sensitivity is set properly so it doesn't double your door in case of spring failure. In an hour and a half, a professional can perform the service required, as well as replace nearly ALL the hardware on your door that can fail and need replacement. What slows us down most is when someone has tightned the set screws so tight it is hard to remove drums or spring cones over the distorted shaft. There are times all we can do is replace the shaft, which takes a little longer. Most professionals won't charge you for the extra time they must spend on the job, other than replacing worn or damaged parts. $200.00? It all depends on where you live. Some spring replacements are less than 200, and some are more. Oh yes, you mentioned not one post dealt with this job. Did you mean "job," as in trade in general, or a specific "job"? Oh, Mikie, did you fly through a job and have a section fall on someones car? WOW! Too bad! From a "skilled craftsman," still around! (amoung many) Well, Mike, I can tell by your long list of degrees and references that you are qualified to make this comment! What I DON'T understand is your rage and contempt for the garage door proffessional. Beings that you appear to be the "expert" on this matter, why don't you "educate" us "unskilled" garage door professionals? After all, isn't that what this blog is here for, to inform each other of things to look out for and the scams?
My analysis of your situation is that you got burned, and you want to take it out on ALL professionals! I know I speak for the majority when I say the larger percent of professionals give you what you pay for. They CAN change out springs in MUCH less than an hour and a half, and give the door a complete tune up, total inspection of ALL hardware, and make sure your opener is reversing as it is supposed to, up, and down. Making sure the sensitivity is set properly so it doesn't double your door in case of spring failure. In an hour and a half, a professional can perform the service required, as well as replace nearly ALL the hardware on your door that can fail and need replacement. What slows us down most is when someone has tightned the set screws so tight it is hard to remove drums or spring cones over the distorted shaft. There are times all we can do is replace the shaft, which takes a little longer. Most professionals won't charge you for the extra time they must spend on the job, other than replacing worn or damaged parts.
$200.00? It all depends on where you live. Some spring replacements are less than 200, and some are more.
Oh yes, you mentioned not one post dealt with this job. Did you mean "job," as in trade in general, or a specific "job"?
Oh, Mikie, did you fly through a job and have a section fall on someones car? WOW! Too bad!
From a "skilled craftsman," still around! (amoung many)

]]> By: mike http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-69940 mike Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:23:44 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-69940 Anything under 200. for 2 torsion springs is cheap.Anything under 1.5 hours is reckless.I have seen these doors falling apart mechanically because these guys come in, talk big and do as little as they can.On every door there are dozens of maintenance issues that need attention and most people today don"t even know what they are.Skilled craftsmen are gone, and you can thank stupid cheap American zombie's who won't pay to have a good job but cry like a baby and blame everyone else when the door falls on their 60,000. BMW. Not one post effectively delt with how to do this job, what a joke. Anything under 200. for 2 torsion springs is cheap.Anything under 1.5 hours is reckless.I have seen these doors falling apart mechanically because these guys come in, talk big and do as little as they can.On every door there are dozens of maintenance issues that need attention and most people today don"t even know what they are.Skilled craftsmen are gone, and you can thank stupid cheap American zombie's who won't pay to have a good job but cry like a baby and blame everyone else when the door falls on their 60,000. BMW. Not one post effectively delt with how to do this job, what a joke.

]]> By: jim http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-69515 jim Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:28:52 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-69515 I had a professional replace single torque spring $120. Same guy replaced dual springs 5 years ago $160. Best to a pro. I had a professional replace single torque spring $120. Same guy replaced dual springs 5 years ago $160. Best to a pro.

]]> By: Warren http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68963 Warren Sat, 07 Jan 2012 22:43:27 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68963 You see, people? There ARE companies out there who believe you can make it without gouging people! Young Dan, You found an honest company. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THEM! That's what keeps us in business, not the few who will pay 3 or 4 times what they should have to, and tell their friends NOT to call them! You see, people? There ARE companies out there who believe you can make it without gouging people! Young Dan, You found an honest company. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THEM! That's what keeps us in business, not the few who will pay 3 or 4 times what they should have to, and tell their friends NOT to call them!

]]> By: YoungDan http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68954 YoungDan Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:43:22 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68954 Called Joe Wilde Company in New Berlin, WI. They are commercial/residential and have been in business since 1945. So I felt comfortable with them. They just finished the repairs. Two new springs, cables, straightened everything that was bowed/bent, and made necessary adjustments. $217 including tax. I was extremely pleased with their work and price!! Called Joe Wilde Company in New Berlin, WI. They are commercial/residential and have been in business since 1945. So I felt comfortable with them.
They just finished the repairs.
Two new springs, cables, straightened everything
that was bowed/bent, and made necessary adjustments. $217 including tax.
I was extremely pleased with their work and price!!

]]> By: Canttakeitanymore! http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68913 Canttakeitanymore! Sun, 01 Jan 2012 12:18:47 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68913 lol ... hmmm, I should've skimmed, got some typo's in there, oh well. #2 should be, I wasn't confident I could get accurate measurements with the old springs still up and ... #4 should be, the tube wouldn't slip through etc. Hopefully people get the gist of what I was trying to say. Dangit now I can't gripe at these folks over their atrocious grammar anymore !! D: Ahhhh, had my say on this anyway, so am done. Live long and prosper folks ... If ye are worthy o course. ;) lol ... hmmm, I should've skimmed, got some typo's in there, oh well.

#2 should be, I wasn't confident I could get accurate measurements with the old springs still up and ... #4 should be, the tube wouldn't slip through etc. Hopefully people get the gist of what I was trying to say. Dangit now I can't gripe at these folks over their atrocious grammar anymore !! D:

Ahhhh, had my say on this anyway, so am done. Live long and prosper folks ... If ye are worthy o course. ;)

]]> By: Canttakeitanymore! http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68912 Canttakeitanymore! Sun, 01 Jan 2012 12:09:10 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68912 Agree with Dave, Changed the springs recently, everything appears fine. Time will tell, know I did everything I could. Wanted to post a couple tips. Like I've mentioned, I don't think much of this ridiculous fear mongering these "pros" are doing is bs, I KNOW IT IS. If you hurt yourself doing this job, then pity you. It's nowhere near as dangerous as the "pros" want everyone to believe. They're fulla it and ya know what it is folks, lol. Same time, depending on circumstances do think there's nothing wrong with hiring a good company/pro to do this. It does take time and effort researching it, getting the stuff together and doing it, can be a real PITA, if you're only saving a couple bucks. If you're saving several hundred and know which end of screw driver to hold, plus can come in handy again later on down the road. Either way someone goes about, hope they have great results with it. Cause it is such a friggin massive pain in the rear regardless. Some tips ... I am not a pro, have done this all of one time recently. But wanted to share a few things I learned along the way. Am not going to type out a bk either, but hopefully somebody benefits or finds summin useful to them in these tips. 1. Research, there's plenty of decent info about this DIY proj online now. Do enough reading, to feel confident you know what you're about. 2. This is just me, but I was confident I could get accurate measurements off the springs with them in place. I wanted them off, where I could really get a good measurement. Though it's a pita ... cuz you need a set of winding bars to unwind the unbroken spring and take em down. In my case it's a good thing I did. When they were up I mistakenly thought they were 1 3/4" inner diameter springs. When I took em down, turned out to be 2" id springs. 3. Measure the dang fasteners !!! Arggggh, guess most of you won't run into this extra headache's, cuz your springs will already take 3/8" bolts and nuts. From what I've seen 3/8" seems pretty standard. In my case, the old springs and the holes in the center bracket turned out to be 1/4" !!! The new springs had 3/8 mounting holes for 3/8" bolts n nuts. How do you measure a bolt ( or bolt hole ) ? Take a tape measure and measure across, from one edge to the other. I was not a happy camper when I measured the existing bolt holes at 1/4" and the mounting holes on the new springs turned out to be 3/8". Anyway, like mentioned most won't have to worry about this. But might save someone headache to hear about my experience and be on the lookout. My center bracket is 1/8" think mild steel ... I just took a 3/8" colbalt drillbit and bored out those holes to be the right size for the new springs. 4. A lot of times you see those guys on youtube hammering away to get the shaft out of the end bearing plate. I almost did the same thing, The tube would slip through and I was banging away with my hand to try n force it. When my gf ( who was standing down watching me says) babe, it's caught up on the other end. Which is what was going on and if she hadn't been there. I'd have been hammering away for using dynamite before long. Found the solution ... if the tube won't easily slide one way, it might slide the other. I ended up taking the other end of the shaft out of it's bearing plate and then the other slid out easy enough. Ya might also be able to get it to slip right on through by twisting and playing with it a bit ... no hammering necessary. 5. While you're doing it, might want to look at getting yourself some longer life springs. Ordinary springs are like 10-15k cycle springs apparently. If it's not much more and you're stuck doing it anyway might want to look up 100k cycle springs and install them now. So you don't have to f with it again for a good long time. Anyway ... there's my 2 cents ... Happy new Yr everybody ! Agree with Dave,

Changed the springs recently, everything appears fine. Time will tell, know I did everything I could. Wanted to post a couple tips. Like I've mentioned, I don't think much of this ridiculous fear mongering these "pros" are doing is bs, I KNOW IT IS. If you hurt yourself doing this job, then pity you. It's nowhere near as dangerous as the "pros" want everyone to believe.

They're fulla it and ya know what it is folks, lol. Same time, depending on circumstances do think there's nothing wrong with hiring a good company/pro to do this. It does take time and effort researching it, getting the stuff together and doing it, can be a real PITA, if you're only saving a couple bucks. If you're saving several hundred and know which end of screw driver to hold, plus can come in handy again later on down the road.

Either way someone goes about, hope they have great results with it. Cause it is such a friggin massive pain in the rear regardless.

Some tips ... I am not a pro, have done this all of one time recently. But wanted to share a few things I learned along the way. Am not going to type out a bk either, but hopefully somebody benefits or finds summin useful to them in these tips.

1. Research, there's plenty of decent info about this DIY proj online now. Do enough reading, to feel confident you know what you're about.

2. This is just me, but I was confident I could get accurate measurements off the springs with them in place. I wanted them off, where I could really get a good measurement. Though it's a pita ... cuz you need a set of winding bars to unwind the unbroken spring and take em down. In my case it's a good thing I did. When they were up I mistakenly thought they were 1 3/4" inner diameter springs. When I took em down, turned out to be 2" id springs.

3. Measure the dang fasteners !!! Arggggh, guess most of you won't run into this extra headache's, cuz your springs will already take 3/8" bolts and nuts. From what I've seen 3/8" seems pretty standard. In my case, the old springs and the holes in the center bracket turned out to be 1/4" !!! The new springs had 3/8 mounting holes for 3/8" bolts n nuts.

How do you measure a bolt ( or bolt hole ) ? Take a tape measure and measure across, from one edge to the other. I was not a happy camper when I measured the existing bolt holes at 1/4" and the mounting holes on the new springs turned out to be 3/8".

Anyway, like mentioned most won't have to worry about this. But might save someone headache to hear about my experience and be on the lookout. My center bracket is 1/8" think mild steel ... I just took a 3/8" colbalt drillbit and bored out those holes to be the right size for the new springs.

4. A lot of times you see those guys on youtube hammering away to get the shaft out of the end bearing plate. I almost did the same thing, The tube would slip through and I was banging away with my hand to try n force it. When my gf ( who was standing down watching me says) babe, it's caught up on the other end. Which is what was going on and if she hadn't been there. I'd have been hammering away for using dynamite before long.

Found the solution ... if the tube won't easily slide one way, it might slide the other. I ended up taking the other end of the shaft out of it's bearing plate and then the other slid out easy enough. Ya might also be able to get it to slip right on through by twisting and playing with it a bit ... no hammering necessary.

5. While you're doing it, might want to look at getting yourself some longer life springs. Ordinary springs are like 10-15k cycle springs apparently. If it's not much more and you're stuck doing it anyway might want to look up 100k cycle springs and install them now. So you don't have to f with it again for a good long time.

Anyway ... there's my 2 cents ... Happy new Yr everybody !

]]> By: Warren http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68905 Warren Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:27:04 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68905 Dave, I haven't seen your door, therefore I can't make an assesment of the situation. The best reason to call a professional is that they know, and automatically look for the reason a cable has frayed, or broken. It isn't all about just replacing the cable. The most frequent cause is an improperly installed door. It is imperitive the torsion tube be level. If one side is higher than the other, the door will shift to the downhill side, and may cause the cables to rub on the track. It could also cause the cable to catch on a hinge, and snap off at a certain point, which causes wear on the cable. Improper alignment of the back hang can also cause problems. It can cause the door to be forced more to one side, causing excessive wear on brackets, hinges, and cable. Doing the work yourself can possibly save you money, depending on what your time is worth. If you are doind a 30 minute job that takes you two or three hours to do, and you have something to do that makes you more money than the cost of the job at hand, you are wasting your time, and NOT getting a professional quality job. I can only speak for myself, but getting the job done, or getting it done right, are two different concepts. being a professional, I would check all possible causes for the cable to break. Check door alignment, excessive wear on drums, roller condition, etc. Then I would service the door, lubing all moving parts, and check for missing bolts or nuts. Before re-attaching the opener, making sure the door ballances properly, and the final step, making sure the sensitivity is set to stop or reverse the movement of the door, either in the up, or down mode. One last thing, I don't have to relax, or rewimd the springs to do this task. You can put a two inch block under the door, use the winding bars to remove tension from the cables, rest the winding bars against the top strut, loosen the set screws in the spring cone, and the torsion shaft will be free. With the door off the floor, it gives you room to remove the cable, even on wood doors with the pin inserted from the blind side of the bracket. After replacing the cable, clamp the torsion tube with vise grips, set each drum with equal tension on the cable and tighten set screws on the drums. Now, wind ths spring just enough to free the winding bar from the winding cone, and tighten the set screws. Do this on both springs, if there are more then one spring. Never tighten the set screws more than 1/4 turn after making contact with the torsion tube! Now, balance the door. You may need to ad a 1/4 or 1/2 turn to each spring to balance the door, depending on how the door balances. After the job is done, you can put the nail back in the astragal with the door open. Always replace the cable in pairs. Unequal lengths can cause problems. WD Dave, I haven't seen your door, therefore I can't make an assesment of the situation. The best reason to call a professional is that they know, and automatically look for the reason a cable has frayed, or broken. It isn't all about just replacing the cable. The most frequent cause is an improperly installed door. It is imperitive the torsion tube be level. If one side is higher than the other, the door will shift to the downhill side, and may cause the cables to rub on the track. It could also cause the cable to catch on a hinge, and snap off at a certain point, which causes wear on the cable. Improper alignment of the back hang can also cause problems. It can cause the door to be forced more to one side, causing excessive wear on brackets, hinges, and cable.
Doing the work yourself can possibly save you money, depending on what your time is worth. If you are doind a 30 minute job that takes you two or three hours to do, and you have something to do that makes you more money than the cost of the job at hand, you are wasting your time, and NOT getting a professional quality job. I can only speak for myself, but getting the job done, or getting it done right, are two different concepts. being a professional, I would check all possible causes for the cable to break. Check door alignment, excessive wear on drums, roller condition, etc. Then I would service the door, lubing all moving parts, and check for missing bolts or nuts. Before re-attaching the opener, making sure the door ballances properly, and the final step, making sure the sensitivity is set to stop or reverse the movement of the door, either in the up, or down mode.
One last thing, I don't have to relax, or rewimd the springs to do this task. You can put a two inch block under the door, use the winding bars to remove tension from the cables, rest the winding bars against the top strut, loosen the set screws in the spring cone, and the torsion shaft will be free. With the door off the floor, it gives you room to remove the cable, even on wood doors with the pin inserted from the blind side of the bracket. After replacing the cable, clamp the torsion tube with vise grips, set each drum with equal tension on the cable and tighten set screws on the drums. Now, wind ths spring just enough to free the winding bar from the winding cone, and tighten the set screws. Do this on both springs, if there are more then one spring. Never tighten the set screws more than 1/4 turn after making contact with the torsion tube! Now, balance the door. You may need to ad a 1/4 or 1/2 turn to each spring to balance the door, depending on how the door balances. After the job is done, you can put the nail back in the astragal with the door open. Always replace the cable in pairs. Unequal lengths can cause problems. WD

]]> By: Dave http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68902 Dave Sat, 31 Dec 2011 02:55:40 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68902 I am not a professional but had to replace the wire cables on a house I was flipping. I read up on how the garage door, springs, wires etc. all interact etc.. Once I understood the concept I replaced the wires no problem. When you replace the wires you have to add the tension again to the spring, so it can't be much more to replace a spring that is broken once the tension is all released. Point being if you can understand how it works and are mechanically handy, it is easy enough. If you can follow directions and then if something doesn't work as in the directions and you can figure it out great, if not then hire someone else. There is a lot of pressure and a lot of things can go wrong, but if you understand the concept then most likely you won't do something stupid which could kill you. I am not a professional but had to replace the wire cables on a house I was flipping. I read up on how the garage door, springs, wires etc. all interact etc.. Once I understood the concept I replaced the wires no problem. When you replace the wires you have to add the tension again to the spring, so it can't be much more to replace a spring that is broken once the tension is all released. Point being if you can understand how it works and are mechanically handy, it is easy enough. If you can follow directions and then if something doesn't work as in the directions and you can figure it out great, if not then hire someone else. There is a lot of pressure and a lot of things can go wrong, but if you understand the concept then most likely you won't do something stupid which could kill you.

]]> By: Warren http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring#comment-68594 Warren Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:38:03 +0000 http://nslog.com/2006/10/02/broken_garage_door_torsion_spring/#comment-68594 The bottom line is, there are people out there who have to put their shoes on and tie them, one at a time, else they may tie them together! NO! These people have no business installing garage door springs! Then, there are those who just know, because of their extreme intelligence, HAVE to be able to do this simple task! Even the most intelligent of these make occassional errors. In this business, there is no room for an occassional error. The mistake I have heard of most frequently is assuming there is no tension left after a spring breaks. After all, you can't lift the door, right? Make that mistake, and you will wind up in the emergency room with every bone in your hand broken, and it only takes an instant! This mistake occurs most often with 1 3/4" springs, as there is enough room to put a socket on the nut and remove it with a power tool while holding the head of the bolt with the other hand. The cone will hit your hand more times than you can count before you can pull your hand back! That isn't the only thing that can injure or maim you, but the torsion system is the one thing that deserves the most respect! If you are one who is able to do this task yourself, by all means, procede. Most of us are busy enough that we won't miss that "one" job. There seems to always be one to replace it. By the way, check for frayed cables and replace them if neccessary. they are sold in pairs for standard height doors, and should only be installed in pairs. also check for brackets that have been rubbing against the track. That can cause trouble at a later date. --- ounce of prevention--- Your professional usually carries these things on his service truck and most times can have your door operational the same day you call for service, not two or three days later, or whenever you can get around to it! And, when he leaves, and he has done his job properly, any other issue has been addressed, as well as the tension on the opener. Sagging opener chain can indicate a problem with the gear shaft, and needs to be repaired. Most techs have those parts on their truck also. Good luck! The bottom line is, there are people out there who have to put their shoes on and tie them, one at a time, else they may tie them together! NO! These people have no business installing garage door springs! Then, there are those who just know, because of their extreme intelligence, HAVE to be able to do this simple task! Even the most intelligent of these make occassional errors. In this business, there is no room for an occassional error. The mistake I have heard of most frequently is assuming there is no tension left after a spring breaks. After all, you can't lift the door, right? Make that mistake, and you will wind up in the emergency room with every bone in your hand broken, and it only takes an instant! This mistake occurs most often with 1 3/4" springs, as there is enough room to put a socket on the nut and remove it with a power tool while holding the head of the bolt with the other hand. The cone will hit your hand more times than you can count before you can pull your hand back! That isn't the only thing that can injure or maim you, but the torsion system is the one thing that deserves the most respect!
If you are one who is able to do this task yourself, by all means, procede. Most of us are busy enough that we won't miss that "one" job. There seems to always be one to replace it.
By the way, check for frayed cables and replace them if neccessary. they are sold in pairs for standard height doors, and should only be installed in pairs. also check for brackets that have been rubbing against the track. That can cause trouble at a later date. --- ounce of prevention--- Your professional usually carries these things on his service truck and most times can have your door operational the same day you call for service, not two or three days later, or whenever you can get around to it! And, when he leaves, and he has done his job properly, any other issue has been addressed, as well as the tension on the opener. Sagging opener chain can indicate a problem with the gear shaft, and needs to be repaired. Most techs have those parts on their truck also.
Good luck!

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