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18 Responses to "Cleveland Plain Dealer"

1. | Reply Troy Brumley
   Posted 30 Jul 2004 at 8:10pm #
   

   Yo! I'm originally from Cleveland. The Plain Dealer showed a disctinct lack of class here. I agree with full reciprocal disclosure as you have done here 😉 Good job.

2. | Reply Steve Streza
   Posted 30 Jul 2004 at 11:05pm #
   

   Owned.

   I live in Cleveland and am very appreciative that such a list did get out. I'd like to know if people I don't like got CHLs, especially because I don't agree with the law in the first place.

3. | Reply Erik J. Barzeski
   Posted 30 Jul 2004 at 11:20pm #
   

   Well, Steve, that's about the dumbest thing I've heard today.

4. | Reply Steve Streza
   Posted 30 Jul 2004 at 11:34pm #
   

   Feel free to elaborate at any time.

5. | Reply Erik J. Barzeski
   Posted 30 Jul 2004 at 11:55pm #
   

   Steve, what you've said is stupid on many levels, not the least of which is that CHL/CCW permit holders are almost never involved in crimes. Criminals, though, are quite frequently involved in crimes. You'd do better not to piss one of them off, or, y'know, be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

   34% of prisoners surveyed said they'd been thwarted by someone with a gun (or even wounded or shot at). People with CHLs aren't going around shooting other people (or you). Do some research.

   In fact, the study showed private citizens actually outperform the police by killing up to three times as many criminals while having a much lower incidence of wrongful shootings. This probably explains another study which showed that 57 percent of criminals fear being shot by citizens more than they do by the police.

   Keep researching and you'll find a lot more where that came from. The evidence is nearly overwhelmingly in favor of gun ownership as a method of crime and victim reduction. Lame, obvious attempts to "shame" or "out" them are just that: lame and obvious.

6. | Reply Steve Streza
   Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 12:10am #
   

   I understand that CHL holders are pretty crime free. However, it doesn't make me feel any safer walking around knowing that there are people who have license to wield firearms. I know nothing about these people.

   I realize that your understanding of the situation is totally different from mine. I've never fired anything worse than a paintball marker. Plus, I know how to handle myself in the event of a gun being pointed in my face. Still, I don't agree with the law that people should be legally allowed to carry them, even with license.

7. | Reply Gabe
   Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 12:18am #
   

   I find the list is an invasion of privacy. If someone legally owns a gun, and legally went through the motions to get their concealed weapons permit-- why the hell would the committ a crime? Publishing a list of people who do something legally is just plain stupid. Why not publish a list of all women who have had abortions while they're at it?

   That list does one thing: create animosity. It was made for the benefit for those who are opposed to guns period. Legal or otherwise. For the record, I don't own a gun, nor do I wish to do so. I make no secret of that, but I also believe in the 2nd. Amendment which allows citizens to make that choice for themselves.

8. | Reply Rodney
   Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 2:02am #
   

   This is not a 2nd Amendment issue. The concern here is the general loss of privacy in a world with highly-linked databases. The government (e.g. DHS and FBI) has always had this capability and is now expanding it post-9/11.

   For example, laws limiting access to DMV records aren't really effective given private databases from places like knowx.com

9. | Reply Caleb Jaffa
   Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 5:05am #
   

   I've always thought this quote was interesting, particularly given that it is around 500 years old.

   "Rome remained free for four hundred years and Sparta eight hundred, although their citizens were armed all that time; but many other states that have been disarmed have lost their liberties in less than forty years."

   --Nicolo Machiavelli

   I may not ever own a gun, but I like that I am able to. I like that people that are responsible, like Erik, who like having guns for a hobby live in my country. I don't get this dislike for people who own guns. I am more worried about the guy who got his gun for cash from some guy selling it out of the back of his van, than I am a person who took the time and effort to legally obtain it.

   More on topic, we live in an age when more information than governments of old commanded is literally at our fingertips. It opens a whole new can of worms about being able to reliably provide information to those who need/should have it, and not to those who don't need it. I think it is interesting how there used to be a lot more honor in the world, but these days it seems like everyone is willing to sell out to push their own agenda. People do things with blatant disregard for others, hoping that even if they are called on it, they only receive a slap on the wrist.

10. | Reply ruby ridge
    Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 9:28am #
    

    they post lists of sex offenders- why not gun owners? they're just as bad.

11. | Reply Erik J. Barzeski
    Posted 31 Jul 2004 at 10:04am #
    

    Steve, you're out of the can. That last comment is now the dumbest thing I've heard today - or this week. 🙂

12. | Reply KarlyeS
    Posted 01 Aug 2004 at 11:31am #
    

    To everyone on this blog, I am making my formal introduction to you as Karlye, Erik's sister. Until today I was content to simply read Erik's postings and other's replies as a way to keep up with what my brother was thinking and doing in his life. After reading this article and some of your silly replies, I was compelled to respond to your ignorance.

    The quote that comes to mind when reading your replies is one that my father often says. "An armed society is a peaceful society." If I am legally carrying a concealed weapon, which I often do, I am more likely to walk away from a confrontation than if I were not carrying that weapon, because I wouldn't want it to get to the point where the gun may become an issue.

    Being a woman in today's society, I can't trust anyone. I am a real estate agent, so I often find myself in vehicles and houses with complete strangers. Having that gun in my purse gives me the security to know that I am a bit safer in the situation. I hope I never have to pull that gun out of my purse, and every other person I know that carries a concealed weapon feels the same way. Just because we have the LEGAL right to carry a gun does not meant that we are going to use it! It is ignorant people like Ruby Ridge and Steve Streza that think they have the "right to know" other people's private matters. I will gladly tell anyone that I carry a concealed weapon, but that's my decision to tell, not some self-righteous newspaper who's just looking for an exclusive article to print.

13. | Reply Gabe
    Posted 01 Aug 2004 at 2:39pm #
    

    Jeeze, I actually got a headache reading Ruby's commnet...

14. | Reply James
    Posted 02 Aug 2004 at 1:25pm #
    

    In fact, the study showed private citizens actually outperform the police by killing up to three times as many criminals...

    OK, well if killing people is a good thing, then go CHLs!

15. | Reply Caleb Jaffa
    Posted 02 Aug 2004 at 2:09pm #
    

    Well killing people isn't good. However CHL's aren't killing innocent people, they are getting the guys who are threatening other people's lives. Lets take for example a convenience store robbery, of everyone there, if someone is going to die, I think it is better for the one with little regard for their fellowman's life to die then the clerk(s), or customers who might be there. I am pretty sure that CHLs are aware of the possible consequences of pulling their firearm out, and so they don't do it carelessly.

16. | Reply Steve Streza
    Posted 13 Nov 2004 at 3:44pm #
    

    You might remember that I was one of the supporters of that whole Cleveland Plain Dealer debacle. Since then, I've changed my stance from being anti-gun to pro-gun for a lot of reasons, and have also switched to condemn the Plain Dealer for posting that list, because a few weeks after that list was posted, a convenience store owner, who had a CCL, was shot fatally when robbers went into rob his store, guns blazing, because they saw his name in the Plain Dealer.

    I just wanted to redeclare my positionon the issue, because it has changed since the last time we've discussed it.

17. | Reply Marc
    Posted 13 Dec 2006 at 3:03am #
    

    Here's an idea let the Plain Dealer publish a list of every citizen that does not own a gun. Then let's see how many people on that list are robbed that night. It was a complete invasion of privacy by publishing that list, and it defeated the purpose of there being private unknown citizens that have a concelled weapon.

18. | Reply John Carroll
    Posted 14 Apr 2007 at 7:20am #
    

    This is an invasion of my privacy. Completely. I have a permit and went through the background checks. I am NOT a threat to anyone except someone who is going to try and harm myself or my family. The Plain Dealer is wrong.