Broken Garage Door Torsion Spring
Posted October 2nd, 2006 @ 12:22pm by Erik J. Barzeski
I returned home this morning after running an errand. I walked upstairs and sat down at my computer desk when I heard a loud "CRACK!" I went downstairs to investigate, thinking perhaps a picture had fallen off the wall, but found no such damage.
It wasn't until I wanted to go to Best Buy (to buy electronics compressed air) that I noticed the spring above my garage door had snapped in two. Prior to this point, I am not even sure I knew garage doors had what I now know are called "torsion springs." Turns out many do (the other kind is the extension spring) and that they last only about 10,000 cycles, or 7 years if you open and close the garage door twice per day.
Since the torsion spring is what helps lift the garage door, and because my garage door features no "handles" per se, I cannot get out of my garage door. Fortunately, I'm not dumb enough to lift part way, either, as I'd rather not have 250 pounds slamming me to the ground.
Repair will cost about $100-$120, but I'll likely get both garage door springs replaced at the same time for a cost of $150-$180. The other will likely go soon, and I'd rather it not be when someone is walking beneath it.
I did find this do-it-yourself garage door torsion spring replacement, but frankly, for the time and effort and danger I'd save, I'm more than happy to spend $60 on labor.
Donate Life
Posted 02 Oct 2006 at 4:09pm #
Yeah, there's no way I'd want to take the risks to save a few bucks on something like that. It's a job best left to professionals.
Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 12:55am #
Where much of the danger comes from with torsion springs is the mounting bracket. The piece of wood behind it (the spring pad) is under an incredible amount of tension. I myself, a 10 year garage door tech, have been injured by the bracket ripping out of the wall. Honestly, the job isn't all that dangerous. Just be aware of a split spring pad and use the appropriate tools and you'll do just fine. Another area where people tend to get maimed is the bottom bracket on the door where the cable attaches. In the closed position, this bracket is under a lot of tension. Do not remove this bracket for any reason while the door is closed! Another thing I see often is when a door has become derailed people will cut the cables so that they can get it closed. This is just dumb. Save yourself the embarrassment of an unnecessary injury and call a professional for this. At least for the first time. Watch what they do so you know how to do it yourself the next time. There are a few tricks to it and everyone does it differently. One last word, please stop greasing your tracks! It only makes your rollers drag and makes it a greasy mess to work on. Do you really think that the door is designed to be a greasy mess in your home? A light silicone lube on the roller stem where it passes thru the wheel is just fine. Also a light spray at each side of the hinge so that the roller may travel back and forth is recommended too.
Posted 04 Feb 2015 at 1:38pm #
The spring replacement cost is explained here
http://mhandbook.com/garage-door-spring-replacement-cost/
Posted 02 Oct 2006 at 4:31pm #
It ended up costing only $140.45 to get both replaced. Took the guy about an hour. $65 or so of that was the service call (labor) charge, so I'm happy to pay it.
Posted 30 Mar 2011 at 10:34am #
yep. just happened to us last nite., Illinois. called my guy this morning he was here in an hour replaced the coil and lubed and adjusted all my other parts $185 done in an hour. He said the same as I have read here, that they last about 10,000 cycles, and we use ours like the front door in and out all day long. so it lasted 6yrs for us.
Posted 29 Nov 2006 at 7:30pm #
I will add my two cents to this topic. There's much talk on the net from folks that can hardly change a light bulb to Engineers that are so smart it takes them 3-1/2 hours to complete this job. Matter of fact a certain engineer writes over 30 pages on how to install torsion springs and goes on in on about it. Wow! That's some extra time I would like to have. My first attempt at this job took me 35 minutes and I'm far from an engineer. As far as how dangerous this job can be, well that depends on who is doing the install. I know plenty of accident proan installers that hurt themselves no matter what they do. I've watched installers and company owners with 50 years in the business up on uneven ladders, with tools, broken springs, buckets scattered all about. Then they cry when they fall and break something. I've also met and talked to thousands of my own customers that install these springs without a hitch. I know this because they call me back or email their success stories. If you have any doubts of your own abilities then I suggest you call someone out of the yellow pages. Notice I never mentioned professional. This is because I have customers that are better skilled garage door installers than most companies hire nowadays. Take your time, do your due diligence and shop for the best price. I'm here to answer all of your questions. 1-866-970-7278
http://www.diygaragerepair.com
Ask for Mike
Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 1:05pm #
Surf the web for spring prices (~$20 ), then ask your self what you really paid that guy for an hour of his time. Make sure he's insured.
Posted 19 Dec 2006 at 1:13pm #
[quote comment="32124"]Surf the web for spring prices (~$20 ), then ask your self what you really paid that guy for an hour of his time. Make sure he's insured.[/quote]
The job cost about $140. Two springs run about $50 after S&H. It took the guy about an hour. That's $90/hour. It would have taken me two to three hours, the purchase of some additional tools, and a whole lot more courage than I had writing a check.
In other words, it was well worth it.
Posted 30 Apr 2007 at 9:07am #
I replaced both of my torsion springs in less than 2 hours and this is the first time I've attempted to do this repair. There is plenty of information on the web on how to do this job safely. In 7 - 10 years when I have to replace them again I'll be able to do the job in less than an hour. I spent $67 including shipping and handling to buy the springs on the internet. This job is less dangerous than working on a roof or using a chain saw. I'm more likely to seriously hurt myself mowing my 2 acre lawn on my riding lawn mower 20 times each spring and summer. I would rate myself as a middle of the road do-it-yourselfer, and I'm not an engineer, just an Information Technology guy. The bottom line is that the fear mongering is just an industry ploy to strengthen business.
Posted 17 May 2009 at 12:47am #
Hey Bill,
I agrre that the fear of doing this job is industry based. However, I do wonder how you determined the size of your springs. Once I get that own, I might be a little more confident. Thanks,
Omar 🙂
Posted 01 May 2010 at 3:21am #
Sounds very encouraging. I think I may try it myself but I've got to get the correct information
Posted 26 Jul 2007 at 10:32pm #
Could someone tell me how long should Torsion Springs on the garage door last? Our last door we were constantly replacing the torsion spring. The new door was replaced June of 2003 and now July of 07 a torsion springs on one side is broke and we have to replace both springs.
Could someone tell me how long a torsion spring should last?
Posted 24 Jan 2010 at 9:35pm #
Your springs are (ok - should be, if done properly) sized to pick up a particular amount of weight for a specific distance for a specific number of cycles. A cycle, in this instance, is opening and closing the door once. If the spring is sized and installed correctly, the door will be properly counterbalanced - and you can manually pick up the door part way, let it go, and it should stay there. The garage door industry standard for factory springs (on a new door) is 10,000 cycles. To determine the length of time that will be, you will have to do some simple math. How many times a day do you (and all the members of your household) open the door? How many days will it take to use up the 10,000 cycles? Some homeowners have "forgotten" how to turn the key in the front walk-thru door lock, and their garage door is the main entry to the home. Multiply that by several family members and the standard cyclage disappears in just a couple of years. If I speak to a homeowner, and discover that they are needing to have springs replaced frequently, I often recommend up-cycled springs. Service technicians will take the weight of the door, size, drum number, and the desired new cycle life and calculate a new spring with a different wire size, diameter, and overall length. Most of the time we can triple (or better) the cycle life for less than $20 more. Be aware that some manufacturers and installers sell "lifetime" springs, but the product literature indicates the springs are engineered for 40,000 cycles. Question anyone who tells you that their springs will never break. (most of the "never break" springs seem to have no product support available when they do! and just what does "lifetime" mean anyway?) Metal fatigue is a fact of garage door life, and the number of cycles, not years, is the best way to determine if you are getting your money's worth. You do have to pay for the convenience of push-button access.
Posted 28 Jul 2007 at 8:01pm #
At first I was just as apprehensive about fixiing my garage door equiped with torsion springs. But after reading about, how to repair, it on the internet. I tried it for the first time today. And I must say, it isn't as hard as most people say it is. I did it less than an hour of my time.
Posted 16 Oct 2007 at 8:32pm #
My torsion spring broke after being on for just 2 years. I called one place and they quoted about $250. Seems very high.
Posted 18 Mar 2008 at 1:54pm #
Just paid $185 to have both springs replaced. The spring breaks about every 4 years. We open and close our garage a lot because of teens driving and my wife and I both work from the house.
I thought it was a high price, but called another local place and they wanted $195.
Posted 20 Mar 2008 at 11:26am #
I live in MD. I called a local place to replace a broken (left-side)torsion spring, the quote is $108 for service call and $98 for the spring. I called another place and was told to buy a torsion spring on internet myself and he will install it for me for $100. Are these the typical costs? Thanks for any information.
Posted 23 Mar 2008 at 11:36am #
[quote comment="46791"]I live in MD. I called a local place to replace a broken (left-side)torsion spring, the quote is $108 for service call and $98 for the spring. I called another place and was told to buy a torsion spring on internet myself and he will install it for me for $100. Are these the typical costs? Thanks for any information.[/quote]
I live in Michigan. I got a quote to replace bot the torsion springs for $150 (I think the break down is $50 or $60 for parts + $90 or $100 for labor). I gave the go ahead on this part of the repair.
However, the gears in my garage door opener are shreedded and not working. I got a quote of $125 for parts and labor for replacing the gear assembly (drive gear, worm gear, etc). The technician suggested me to replace the garage door itself ($285 parts and labor) since it is 9 years old.
I have to decide between replacing the garage door opener or just the gear assembly in the current one. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Regards
Raavango
Posted 28 Mar 2008 at 2:24pm #
I just replaced both torsion springs on my garage door. The door is 50 years old so I had to have custom springs fabricated with crawford ends.
Any competent do-it-yourselfer can complete this project.
IMHO, there is too much fear in general in our society. What ever happened to the fundamental American ideal of self sufficiency.
Posted 09 Aug 2012 at 12:25pm #
Jeffrey,
Where did you get your crawford springs from? One of my torsion springs broke and it turns out it's a crawford.
A company this morning said they would need to change everything incl. tracks, which makes a whole new door cheaper.
Another company wants to convert to standard and change springs and drums etc. for $300.
Posted 15 Apr 2008 at 10:07pm #
Raavango, don't fall for th e oldest trick in the book. Bait'n switch.
They quote you a low price, then add parts you probably don't need, finaly th e whole door. Buyer beware.
Posted 20 Apr 2008 at 2:52pm #
I am just in the middle of installing new tension springs on my garage door. The job if very simple if you look on the web for tips and tricks. The hardest part for me is going to be finding the springs. Being in canada i would love to be able to order off the internet but the shipping would cost more the the springs. But it's not a difficult job the hardest part is taking the tension off of the springs.
Posted 20 May 2008 at 9:25pm #
Just remember, if you do the job incorrectly, i.e. wrong size spring, not enough tension, timing of cables, stripped set screws on the drums,etc., can end up costing you a homeowner's claim when the door falls on your car. I see that and bloody garages regularly. Good luck though, see you in the ER.
Posted 04 Jun 2008 at 2:26pm #
I ordered my spring last week. Received it last evening. Replaced it last night-about 1.5 hrs. No problems. My garage door is a single car, steel door (weighs about 100lbs). Used the Engineer's site to calculate my spring's dimensions (the previous spring was undersized-leading to premature failure), and number of turns to preload the spring. For my size door, the spring tension was not anywhere close to frightening. It's definintely a DIY job. Got my spring from prodoorsupply.com.
BTW, I live in California. Spring cost=19.00, Shipping=13.00.
Good luck on your projects.
H
Posted 28 Mar 2011 at 1:21am #
Hi,
One of torsion spring breaken,i have to repalce it,if I have to replace both of them and only one of them?
Also,where can I buy the torsion spring in california?please do a favour to me
Bing
Posted 07 Jun 2008 at 8:55am #
To Henry, The spring you replaced successfully is an extension spring if your door weighs 100 lbs and costs $19. The torsion springs on doors that weigh between 325-1000lbs are much more serious to attempt. Congrats on your project.
Posted 09 Jun 2008 at 1:21pm #
Now I really feel terrible... Same thing (about the loud noise) happened to my husband and I on Friday evening. We looked everywhere and the only thing we could find was metal shavings on the back of my dark green car. Next morning I used my old car that's parked on the street to run errands. Got home at 12:00 noon and found out that my husband could not open the garage door to get his vehicle out. He called 6 places before he could get someone to come out on a Saturday to replace the springs. One place that's 1 hour away quoted him $1,000 to replace the springs - it's a two-car garage with only one door, so I really don't know for sure but it looks like 2 springs to me. He did get someone who was much closer. It took the guy 20 minutes and we were charged $450! Oh well - after contemplating all the scenarios (door falling on someone, or my pets, or the cars themselves) plus having it done so quickly - I guess it was worth the money. We both work - so having it done during the week (which probably would have been cheaper) was not an option. Live and learn - I NEVER heard of this happening. WOW is all I can say.
Posted 21 Mar 2012 at 11:28pm #
I had a professional replace single torque spring $120. Same guy replaced dual springs 5 years ago $160. Best to a pro.
Posted 09 Jun 2008 at 10:24pm #
To Liz, Normal business ours jobs should cost between $189 for one spring and $295 for two. Sundays and holidays will cost a premium because of having to do a call out. As far as the time that it took, it's impossible to do the job in 20 mins. 45 to one hour is the average start to finish including guaging the spring and replacement. Be careful of the big adds in the yellow pages. The bigger the ad the more you will pay. Good Luck!
Posted 12 Jun 2008 at 12:25pm #
My spring broke. When we lifted the door to get my car out, a couple of the wheels came off the track and the cable is all messed up. The quote I just got is for $645.57 including- tune up 25, labor 150, lifetime spring 150, wheels 160, cables 100, bearing 30 and tax. How do I know if I need all of this?
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 5:59pm #
Yeah, I work for a company that has been fixing garage doors for 70 yrs, I've been there for 16 and there is no such thing as a "lifetime warranty" on any type of spring. The game in this industry played by the ripoff artist is promising a lifetime warranty to justify there high pricing. And guess what they are no longer in business for the consumer to take advantage of the lifetime warranty or the change their name to hide from the responsibility.There is not a garage door repair I could offer someone that would cost $600.( Residentially and not custom) We call that a new garage door. Get the word out about the big truck adds in the yellow advertising books that feature companies that are not local. Do business with companies that have an office that you can go to and speak with the GM. Good Luck!
Posted 16 Mar 2009 at 9:54pm #
All you guys think your saving money by doing it yourself, and bragging about the springs only costing 50 dollars, well let me tell you, I only pay between 6 and 9 dollars per spring, and most garage door guys only pay that too. As far as whoever is saying 600 is too much to pay for this type of work, really needs to go back to McDonalds and work there if he is bragging on how little he charges, what an idiot. You win the prize....... you did it for the lowest prize. Why dont you get out of this business, your the type of scumbag who ruins businesses. Please dont reproduce and make babies because your a loser. This must be NG
Terrance
Posted 14 Jun 2008 at 6:03pm #
RH, Get a second opinion on your door. Most companies offer rebuild kits for your door that range from 300-400 depending on the size which includes all of those parts. Unless they are going to do this work after hours or on a holiday you are getting ripped. Good Luck, use the Better Business Bureau in your area is the safest bet.
Posted 27 Jul 2008 at 4:07pm #
I work 2nd shift so I arrived home about midnight last Friday night and attempted to open the garage....it would only go up about 6" only to come right back down. What's going on??? I was curious as @#ll and immediately went into the garage to invistigate only to learn one of the torsion springs broke. I usually attempt to fix anything that breaks myself but I've heard of so many horror stories on the dangers of working with these springs. I consider myself very frugale but when it comes to torsion springs.....leave it to the more experienced. Paying someone else to do it as apposed to risking injury is a no brainer. Now remember...I said I was frugale, so I get estimates! I just started doing that and so far I've had one quote for $155.00 for 1 spring replacement. I will be getting at least 5 more estimates before I decide who to go with. I will post a added comment to this post with the final cost I incured for this. This is probably one of a half dozen projects I would NOT attempt to do due to safety concerns.
Posted 11 Sep 2008 at 9:54am #
My Garage Guy (Lake County Door in Waukegan, IL) is outside as we speak, and I am having two springs replaced (Only one is actually broken). They are well over 15 years old!
He quoted me 165.00 for one spring, and 210.00 for both. He said it would take about an hour.
After reading everyone's experiences, it seemed pretty fair to me.
Also, I would like to add, that the repair man called and showed up exactly when he promised. This company did work for me in February; replaced cables, bottom fixtures, and rollers, and then replaced a large gear in the opener and at that time charged me 250.00.
As a 50+ year old Women, I think the money is well worth it.
Posted 27 Sep 2008 at 12:45pm #
Our garage door spring broke this morning. (We live in Jacksonville, FL) I called several companies to see who could come out today and quote a reasonable price for the repair. America's Choice quoted me $139 for one spring, which covered the part, labor and service visit. When the repair man arrived, less than an hour after I called, he suggested I replace both springs since the unbroken one was sagging. He said it probably wouldn't last much longer. Since the springs are almost ten years old, I agreed. He charged me $239 to replace both springs. I thought an additional $100 for the second spring was steep. But since he was already here I didn't want to haggle.
Posted 28 Sep 2008 at 9:43pm #
I first noticed the symptom described by Mike above a couple of days back. My wife heard the loud metallic sound (like something hit the door), but only today did I realize that it was because of the broken spring.
The strangest thing is that the garage door will still open fully if I press and hold the door open button on the inside. But if I use the remote, it opens for a few inches and stops (doesn't fall back).
Replacing them seems simple but potentially dangerous. I'm going to ask around for a quote before deciding on whether to do it myself.
Do any retail stores carry these springs?
Posted 27 Jul 2014 at 12:56pm #
Lowe's only carries a few, decided to by online.
Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 6:25pm #
ummm i have a old garage were i have to pull it up and i want to know how do u tightin it up im trying to find diffrent website and this is the only one that has the most information im only 15 sooo 😀 can you help me out??? 🙄
Posted 01 Oct 2008 at 11:29pm #
In my 30-year career servicing garage doors I have probably replaced over 15,000 residential and industrial garage door springs.
Some of these torsion springs still scare me because the cone holes have inconsistent sizes and the winding bars often slip out, causing the spring to unwind without warning. Do-it-yourselfers are frequently injured when this happens.
At our web site I show pictures of which cones are dangerous, and I also outline safe procedures for replacing springs so that if the winding bars do slip out of the cone, the diy-er will be less likely to get injured.
If you're thinking about replacing your own garage door torsion springs, get the facts. I am as happy when a potential customers tells me he called a professional to fix his garage door just to be safe, as I am when a customer e-mails us telling us how easy it was and how quickly he replaced his springs.
Posted 20 Oct 2008 at 2:14pm #
hi, I had this fixed recently and cost $ 325....I think it's way too high when I read thses postings.
Labor was $ 80, for the parts he charged $ 220, service call $ 25. I fell shocked that some of you did it for $ 140 to $ 150. I am in Atlanta, feel like these peopl are ripping us. 🙁
Posted 20 Oct 2008 at 9:34pm #
Always remember that Torsion spring's are very dangerous and regardless of whatever any armchair quarterback here say's, you can get hurt badly and property can get damaged. Call your local BBB for good companies in your area and understand the differences in cost posted on this site are market driven. Spring's in L.A. will cost twice as much as Atlanta. Look out for the companies that are subcontracting work out. If someone arrives at your house in an unmarked vehicle, be very careful. They get paid according to how much they charge you. 20-30% of the total bill. Stick with established businesses with proven reputation's in your area. The cheapest price quoted over the phone will often cost you more in the long run.
Posted 20 Oct 2008 at 11:01pm #
I am new to message boards, and I wasn't sure if this one would automatically post our url.
Here is the web site where you can find detailed pictures and procedures for safely replacing garage door torsion springs. You'll also find all the parts and tools you'll need to fix your garage door.
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/residential/torsion-spring-replacement.cgi.
Posted 21 Oct 2008 at 8:44pm #
Probably not the best advise for the novice Dan. I've been to many a bloody garage because of sites like that one. Stick with a pro for safety.
Posted 23 Oct 2008 at 10:16am #
[quote comment="50274"]Always remember that Torsion spring's are very dangerous and regardless of whatever any armchair quarterback here say's, you can get hurt badly and property can get damaged. Call your local BBB for good companies in your area and understand the differences in cost posted on this site are market driven. Spring's in L.A. will cost twice as much as Atlanta. Look out for the companies that are subcontracting work out. If someone arrives at your house in an unmarked vehicle, be very careful. They get paid according to how much they charge you. 20-30% of the total bill. Stick with established businesses with proven reputation's in your area. The cheapest price quoted over the phone will often cost you more in the long run.[/quote]
I wish I had read this sooner. I paid a repairman $895 this morning for a rebulid (2 car- 1 door). The cables and springs and wheels were replaced with a 5 yr warranty. He said a new door would cost $1800 so this seemed like a more reasonable choice at the time. Live and learn!
Posted 28 Oct 2008 at 7:51pm #
I just replace 2 spring, my cost 139 each spring, 100 per hour labor, $380.00
Posted 29 Oct 2008 at 11:06pm #
[quote comment="50310"]Probably not the best advise for the novice Dan. I've been to many a bloody garage because of sites like that one. Stick with a pro for safety.[/quote]
The warnings at http://ddmgaragedoors.com/residential/torsion-spring-replacement.cgi will scare away any novice; it's not an "anyone-can-do-it" site.
I think Tate would have to admit that there are many mechanically-inclined do-it-yourself-ers who can safely replace their own garage door torsion springs.
Also, just as there are safe ways to drive a car there are safe ways to replace garage door springs. But being safe at both can still land you in the hospital.
Accurate information is essential to safe torsion spring replacement.
Another good resource for additional information is Richard Kinch's page at http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm.
In my 30 years repairing garage doors I've only seen two doors with blood on them. At least one of the accidents would not have occurred if he had first read the instructions at DDM Garage Doors. I was not given the details of the other accident.
Posted 10 Nov 2008 at 2:12pm #
The thing about springs is this yes a do it yourselfer who is determined and has lots of time on his hands can change springs the question is what's your time and safety worth? As someone who has done 1000's of spring chances on all kinds of overhead doors let me tell you this, most of the information for these do it yourself spring change sites is incomplete. A real Pro knows from years of experience all the in and outs of not just springs but how the door works and how it should work. Not only does a pro have years of experience working with springs but they also know and have worked with every other part on a Garage Door. The important thing to remember is springs only work Garage Doors that have been installed properly. Over time floors crack and move, framing moves, doors sag, the hardware can get loose or break, bolts can come out and on and on you get the idea? When it comes to Garage Doors it is the real professional with years of experience and knowledge to know what to look for in order to evaluate the whole system so it can be repaired properly and safely.
Posted 02 Dec 2008 at 4:34am #
cracked spring after 15 years. used yellow pages. quoted over phone $150 for 1, $210 for both. dispatcher confirmed door won't open manually with a cracked spring. said tech would show within 4 hours. tech showed in 2 hours and even called first! spent 30 minutes replacing both, tightened bolts, greased rails, etc.. gave written warranty: 60 days labor, 2 years on springs. said springs should last 10,000 cycles (cycle=up and down). for an additional charge they offer a 30,000 cycle spring.
Posted 04 Dec 2008 at 2:32pm #
A guy is here right now replacing our two springs (one broke last night). It's $215, which seems reasonable as it's a big door (18') and it's 20 degrees outside. My husband noticed it this morning as he was leaving for work. Heard a noise last night, like something fell, but couldn't find anything. My rather handy husband was once replacing a spring when it shot by his head and made a hole in the wall behind him. We'll leave this to the professionals.
Posted 19 Dec 2008 at 1:30am #
I just removed my garage door myself. It was a LOT of work, and I probably wouldn't attempt it again without some help, but now I don't have to worry about garage door springs. I got a silent intruder alarm and a shotgun so no worries for me. Hardest part of the job was replacing the buckshot with rock salt. If anyone thinks they can steal my lawnmower just because I don't have a garage door, well, they are going to find out what it I found out the hard way when I tried stealing watermelons from the not so friendly farmer near our home when I was a teenager. OUCH!!
Posted 06 Jan 2009 at 10:37pm #
We are paying $400 to replace 2 garage-door springs after we complained that the original price of $460 was too high.
Big Lesson: Be sure you get a bid on this job before the repairman shows up. Once they show up they'll quote you a high price and then want to charge you a "service call" fee for looking at the broken spring.
Posted 29 Mar 2011 at 5:20pm #
Bill,
Wish I saw this message an hour ago. I had the same problem with the company showing up saying each spring will cost $202. However, there was already a $59 service charge for looking at it. Overall $469. The add said free estimates and that is what I requested but was told otherwise.
Lesson learned.
Posted 08 Jan 2009 at 8:59pm #
Mike, you seem to have a very negative attitude. Do you try to put down other trades, or just the garage door trade? Maybe you should check around, because, all door companies aren't irresponsible, and most, have integrity! Maybe more than you! I, for one, have enough referred business that I don't have to be too agressive to keep busy.
A person with no experience should NEVER take on a spring repair by himself. They ARE dangerous! Garage door springs have different wire gauges, and different inside diameters. If they don't get the right size, they can have drastic consequences. The door can be too hot, or can't pick the door off the floor. It can run out of power before the door is all the way up, and to push it the rest of the way can let a cable off the drum.
If I go to repair a door that the owner attempted, I have to tell them that it will take me longer, and it makes my job more difficult, than had they called me in the first place! Therefore, it will cost them more!
I AM a professional! You are NOT! Warren
Posted 08 Apr 2010 at 12:25am #
Just found this site. I do have to say Warren is right about this repairing a spring is a dangerous task. Many do not realize what harm can happen when something goes wrong.
As far as Garage door companies out there being honest well I can say with 100% confident that there are some but yes do research first. We have been in business for over 35 years and 90% of our business is word of the mouth. We do not put out $$$ on advertising. We rather rely on our referrals to offer a low but fair market cost.
Be careful with these fly by night companies. these companies are the ones that will come in at such a low cost that no one can beat. These companies will come in give you a price you can't resist and leave you with a headache and another call to fix their mess.
We don't advertise in the phone book we do have a website. that's new. We were a member of BBB but we stop being a part of that. I think my MIL thought the fees were too much and didn't want to pay it! IDK its beyond me But just because we are not members of BBB anymore don't mean we are not a good company. We once had 8 jobs come to us Thu 1 referral. We should of taken this guy to dinner to say thank you. I think many people just love my husband. He is a sweet guy that is willing to help the homeowners.
Posted 14 Jan 2009 at 6:06pm #
My husband is a garage door installer with 15 years of experience. In his experience he has seen installers injured by garage door springs. This mostly happens in commercial work but it does happen in residential situations also. He has seen people who try to do it themselves get hurt. I'm sure there are some handy people who can figure it out if you take the time to learn what you are doing . But if you're not that handy and you haven't done your homework first Stay Away From The Springs. And Please use the Right Tools for Safety Reasons, DO NOT try to use screw drivers in place of winding bars!!! We are in Portland, OR and my husband charges 140 for a single spring change and 195 for a double. Extension springs are less. My husband is nice and doesn't charge people extra if it is Saturday or late at night, unless it's past ten or eleven and would only charge extra for Sundays or Holidays (sometimes he doesn't even then, but he's nicer than most companies). He can change a spring in 20-30 min. If one of your springs broke and you have two change them both, the other one WILL break in a few days to a couple months and then you have to pay for someone to come out again. Regular springs are 10,000 cycle, you can open and close the door 10,000 times (about 7-15 years depending how often you open your door). If you don't want to worry about your springs breaking again ask about 50,000 or 100,000 cycle springs, they will last the life of your door. Make sure your door is balanced when the installer is done. Disconnect the opener and open the door to different heights, the door should stay stationary at any position, if your door wants to open or close the door is not balanced and your spring will not last as long as it should. If your spring broke after only a couple years and you don't open and close your door ten times a day, chances are the installer of the springs used the wrong size spring to save himself money and to get a service call out of you a couple years sooner. Don't use the same company to change your spring! Torsion springs will most likely break in the fully closed position or close to it when the spring is under the most pressure, so always make sure nothing is under the door while closing it. And when they break they stay on he torsion tube they won't fly through the garage like extension springs. Here is something Really Important if you don't have torsion springs and you have extension springs, springs that extend toward the back of your garage, MAKE SURE THEY HAVE SAFETY CABLES, these are cables that run through the center of the spring. That way when an extension spring breaks it stays on the cable and will not be a potentially deadly projectile in the garage. My husband has seen many walls and cars badly damaged because the extension spring shot like a bullet through the garage (Imagine if there had been a child or pet in the garage). If you have any questions about Garage Doors please feel free to email, my husband is always happy to answer peoples questions about garage doors lovethecanada@hotmail.com
Posted 19 May 2010 at 11:27pm #
Thank you for the honest pricing info. I appreciate it!
Posted 15 Jan 2009 at 6:43am #
Sounds like we/re getting the word out. Don't go to the yellow pages or the internet to find a company. Get advise from your local Better Business Bureau to assure you won't get taken advantage of, especially in this economy. The individuals in that group are held to a certain professional standard and code of ethics. Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 08 Feb 2009 at 12:47pm #
This forum has been very useful. I am very handy but after reading all the safety instructions and diy pages, I agree that if you can find a reasonable service provider locally, better get the professionals and be safe than sorry.
The challenge I face is finding a "reasonable" GD springs repair professional in the bay area. Any help from local bay area forum users is appreciated.
Posted 08 Feb 2009 at 8:12pm #
I have an older torsion setup, with the springs mounted over by the rails at each end of a very long door.
A cable snapped, and I do not have winding cones. I'm wondering how to re-tension these springs? I have never seen this setup before in my life.
Posted 09 Feb 2009 at 12:22am #
If your door has torsion springs, there has to be a way to wind them. Some of the older, I mean, MUCH older doors were anchored on a bracket that covered the cable drum. They still had winding cones on them. I've seen a lot of different systems, even cables and pulleys with concrete weights, even rocks, in the wall. Some of the newer systems have concealed springs, or mechanical winding devices, and you can't wind them with winding bars.
There are so many things I read in this site, it scares me, that some of you will attempt this task. I agree, some of you are up to it. More of you are not! Tell me, what do you do if someone has tightned the set screws so tight on the torsion bar that you can't remove the springs, or the drums? I've been there, and had to replace the torsion tube. How many of you diy's will tighten the screws that tight? How many will not tighten them enough? Do you know what will happen if the tension on the lift cables are not equal? Who are you going to call when the cable won't stay on the drum, and you think you followed the directions to the letter? When you think you measured the old springs perfectly, get them installed, and can't get the door to balance, too hot off the floor, have to take a couple of winds off them, then you run out of lift, opening the door, and the cable comes off! Who do you call then? How much are you willing to pay to have someone who knows how, to come fix it then?
I agree, you should get more than one price, unless you know someone, or are friends with someone who does know someone! Just because you aren't aware of prices, because, how often do you have to deal with this? Reputable door companys won't take advantage of you, just because you don't know. After hours, most will charge a reasonable fee for calling someone out after regular hours. They have to pay the help extra!
Don't let someone tell you sagging springs are a sign of worn out springs. Springs don't wear out! the metal in them fatigues from the movement in them winding up and down. They are just as strong from the time they set in, till the day they give up! There is no way to know when a spring will break. We just know that if you have a pair of springs, the same size, one breaks, the other will usually break soon after. That is because they have both had the same movement, winding, and unwinding!
A "professional" garage door repair man will check things other than the springs for excessive wear, and most will not use grease on the track. A garage door lube, which is basicly a dry lube, is adequate, and isn't messy if you come in contact with it. You can usually purchase a can from your service man, and periodically lube the rollers and hinges yourself. You don't have to lube the track.
A professional can certify as to the system's safety! Peace of mind!
One last thing, It isn't true that you shouldn't call someone who has a website. I have evaded this for all these years. Now, with the economy as it is, I developed a website. I wish to have my share of the market, and to do that, I have to be visible to a larger market! I still ask you to ask for estimates, and asure yourself that it won't change after the job is done.
Posted 09 Feb 2009 at 11:15am #
iunderstand where you are coming from above there. I say the same thing to people taking big trees down on their property. Call a pro, its dangerous.
I've done some doors before, but with this one I'm tellin' you, there is no winding cone. If I knew how to insert a image here I would. The springs are not on a long shaft. They are individually mounted way over at each side of the door on their own bracket. I'm guessing the house was built in the 30's, and its a 900lb solid wood 2 1/2 car wide door.
PS: I called a couple guys. 2 came out to look at it, and none have called back, come to repair it, or return my calls =) They must be thinking the same thing as me "how the heck do I wond that sucker"
Posted 07 Feb 2013 at 2:07am #
Just a thought about your door, I grew up in a house about that vintage. It takes some muscle and maybe a friend or two. if you can lift the door into the up position, carefully rewind wind the cables and re attach them to the door with a little tension, they will wind the torsion spring on the way down. If you need more description than that, I doubt you're up to the task. I dont mean to be rude, but a solid door like that is dangerous. I haven't fixed one since I was a reckless teenager and I was lucky no one got hurt. Also some better made systems have a key that can be wound, like a clock and are much easier and safer to tune than using winding bars and set screws. look for a square hole or nub sticking out before attempting my last resort method. good luck.
Posted 09 Feb 2009 at 11:09pm #
Michael, I'm convinced you have extension springs. They should hang by the side of the horizontal track with a ring or "S" hook attaching it to the rear track hanger bracket, and a cable/pully system from the front of it, over a sheave, (pulley) to the bottom of the door. It must have the pulley system incorporated because the spring won't stretch enough to let the door to the floor. Make sure whoever replaces the springs for you include a containment cable. It could save your life!
Posted 10 Feb 2009 at 7:01am #
Actually, they are probably extension springs, but look like torsion springs. On a door made in the 1930's, they mounted torsion springs either vertically on the sides of the track, or horizontally near the ceiling. No winding cones, just u-hooks. We won;t see these often at all. Doubt the door weighs 900 lbs though. Probably around 300-400.
Posted 22 Feb 2009 at 10:22pm #
My husband is a true do it yourselfer. After an entire saturday of listening to him complain as he tried to repair our garage door, I called a residential door company. It was pricy, but well worth every penny. Not listening to hubby complain: PRICELESS!
Posted 05 Mar 2009 at 12:15am #
I only watch the first segment, after seeing this guy touch the spring with his hand that was enough for me. There is another video with a professional installer. He an older gentlemen, he used vise grips to hold the Torsion tube as a safety precaution. Not once did the installer touch the springs during the installation process.
If you are not confident using hand tools, hire someone. It took me approximately 45mins to install both sides.
Posted 05 Mar 2009 at 1:24am #
To Fireballs, The gentleman you watched used the visegrips to HOLD the torsion tube, so the cables would remain taught, and not flip off the drums while winding the springs. It was not a safety procedure. Just one of the steps we PROFFESSIONALS take to make our job EASIER, and makes us more efficient!
I don't know where "Tate" got his information, but I remembered he said it was impossible to replace a pair of springs in 20 minutes. It doesn't happen on all spring replacements, because sometimes the tube is distorted from over tightening the set screws on the springs, or cable drums, and they won't let close fits slide over these distortions without a battle, but today was one of those times everything went perfectly, and 12 minutes after I backed in his driveway, I was putting my tools away, and while he wrote the check for $150. 00, I lubed the rollers and hinges. (Something I always do) and I don't charge a service charge on top of the price of the repair! (The gentleman was watching the time because he had to leave to drive school bus as soon as I finished.)
The professional is usually the best bet for garage door repair, because Most of us have learned how to be efficient, and safe!
Loosening all the set screws and sliding the torsion tube one way, then the other, is the quickest and usually the easiest way to remove and replace the springs.
Posted 05 Mar 2009 at 7:34am #
Warren, I was merely stating that doing the job safely and thoroughly ,you couldn't do the job in 20 minutes. Yeah, if I was "RACING" to get the job done any Pro could. I like to give my customers value for their dollar by checking the complete system and adjusting to proper safety specs. Good job though, you're fast.
Posted 05 Mar 2009 at 1:22pm #
I agree with you, Tate, on being thorough. I wasn't racing, and everything just clicked! The installer did a good job by not over tightening the set screws. That made it come apart, and go together MUCH easier. I checked the up and down sensitivity, and when I adjusted the down pressure, I noticed the chain was slack, and that there was residue around the sprocket. I went back today and replaced the sprocket assy in the opener. The owner didn't have time yesterday!
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 3:48pm #
Tate...charging $289 to replace two broken springs? Seems very high to me!!! Listen everybody...No one should be paying more than $210 to have both springs replaced on a standard two car garage..If Tate charges $289....I suggest you look elsewhere
Posted 05 Oct 2009 at 8:36pm #
HOLD ON EVERYONE. All of these comments I've read and not 1 person has considered the cost to do business. Do you have any idea how much it costs to advertise? The cost for insurance and bonding? How long it takes to drive to the supplier to pick up parts? There are alot of factors involved in doing garage door repair. Its just not the spings cost $80-$100 per set, its all the other costs invoved in running a business. Think of it this way. You can go to the store and buy a 1lb t-bone steak for around $5-$6. But if you order that steak at a restuarant you will pay close to $20! Its just the cost of doing business!! I will say this though, you can get a quality spring job done for under $275. I charge $225/set any size. (tortion springs only) If you are quoted more KEEP LOOKING!!!!
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 5:24pm #
We do spring changes every day in Denver area a standard 2 car 16x7 wood or steel door for $195 includes two 15,000 cycle galvanized springs. Comes with a 3 year parts and labor warranty. Includes lube, tune and opener ajustment. We never replace one spring if one is broken the other is shot too. I've seen other companies charging as much as $600 for the same service. If you know what your doing and we do. Spring changes just take a few minutes in most cases. No matter what anyone says on this site or others this is a job best left to professionals. It's really not a do it yourself job.The guy telling you it is a do it yourself job is trying to sell you springs! I watched the guy on UTUBE do a spring change it scared the hell out of me. That fool was lucky he didn't kill himself. It looked to me like when he was done his door wasn't balanced right anyway. Best advice hire a pro.
Posted 06 Mar 2009 at 9:51pm #
To Ownerofcoconutsinsouthpadre, wow that's a mouth full, antway pricing is relevant to the market you are in. Atlanta is a huge Metro and the marketplace merits that price.All of my pricing is via competition surveys in this market. Yours could differ. Also, warraties from company to company differ. A 3-5 year warranty is normal. Anyone offering a lifetime warranty are feeding you a load of it. They won't be in business for you to collect on that warranty. Good Luck!
Posted 16 Mar 2009 at 10:16pm #
you fools are all giving your labor away and trying to brag about how low you charge, like the guy who says listen it shouldnt cost more then 210.00 how the hell does he know what it should cost, just wait until you get sick and cant work, and have no money because you never charged anyone for your work you idiot. Your all trailer trash people talking on here it sounds like, I get almost 800.00 dollars for 2 springs, and 500.00 for 1, I dont care what type of spring it is, if my expertise and experience is at there house, doing this shitty type of work, they are gonna pay me good. What do you think this is burger king, have it your way. I also charge 1300 for a garage door opener too, and I am so busy I work late every night, even weekends. Get a life and charge before you find yourself standing in a bread line. It shows how your mentallity is buy what you charge, customers dont really care, most of them always act surprized but dont really care, they have the same reaction when I charge 100 dollars for something as 800, and they all still pay the bill with a smile.
Mr T
Posted 24 Jan 2011 at 1:34pm #
Rectom..... I work in a different field, but have lot of training and expertise at what I do (close to a decade is required to be qualified). I am paid very well, but have never bent some one over and tried to do what you are describing. God help anyone dumb enough to pay you what you charge.
Posted 17 Mar 2009 at 8:36am #
What city and state do you work in?
As I mentioned in my post above I was charged $239 to replace both springs. I've lived in 11 states and we've had 12 different houses. (My husband is transferred a lot.) I've had the springs replaced on our garage door in most of those houses over the years. The most I have ever been charged was $350.
If someone tried to charge me $800 I would not only report them to the Better Business Bureau, I would make sure they were added to our neighborhood list of shiesters. AND I would warn all my friends. If you make our neighborhood shiester list, the guard won't even let you in the front gate.
The man who replaced my springs not only enjoyed his work, talking to me while he worked about exactly what he was doing, but he was pleasant and helpful in all respects, checking everything else on the door while he was here. If I have to replace the whole door, or have any more repairs done on this door, I won't hesitate to call him and recommend him to my friends and neighbors.
Posted 17 Mar 2009 at 10:53am #
No one is paying $800 for a spring change unless they are stupid. $1300 for a Garage Door Opener is insane. People you need shop around only criminals charge prices like that. Trailer Trash I wonder who's the trash? Just goes to show you ripp-offs abound.
Posted 17 Mar 2009 at 12:32pm #
A.H. (rectom) I believe you are not even in the garage door business! Your remarks, and language, reflect on your mentality! You appear to just be a smart allec trying to be funny! You are not! Anyone who would pay that much for your services probably doesn't have the intelligence to earn the kind of money it takes to pay your fees, or they make so much that they don't get a second opinion.
I don't know where you get your springs for 8 or 9 dollars. At that price, I wouldn't trust them to even be wound, let alone operate a door. Even extension springs cost dealers more than that!
You probably should get a job, and quit harrassing people trying to earn an honest living!
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 2:36am #
Could anyone tell me if I got totally ripped off or just a little ripped off? Not ripped off at all??
Called a company to repair my garage door yesterday and he charged me a "package" deal of $599 plus $85 for labor. It took him over an hour. Replaced the pole that holds the springs, the the middle bracket, two springs, the cables, 2 torque force drums (?) and sealed bearings. Sprayed lube.
It is rolling single door for a 2 car garage and both springs were broken. Probably about 15-20 years old. He said he didn't have springs that fit the pole thing so he had to replace the pole thing. He was very professional and came out the same day within 30 minutes of the 2 hour window. Looks and sounds like he did alot and at the time I thought the cost was higher than anything I imagined, but was happy to pay it as it was a dangerous situation. But what would I know, I wish I did a little research before now reading all the deals people got...
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 3:38pm #
Leslie, I would never put $600 in an old door. I don't know what part of the country you’re in but $600 in a 20 year old door sounds like a scam to me. We install new un-insulated 16x7 steel doors for around $800. That includes removing your old door and installing the new door with all new hardware, track and springs. The parts you bought only cost about $75.00 max. Next time shop around chances are good you didn't need most of the parts you paid for. We never replace parts unless they are visibly broken.
It’s a well known scam for the rip-off artists to do what they call a door rebuild. They put a few inexpensive parts into and old worn out door and charge $600 to $800. When they’re done you still have an old unsightly and potently dangerous gargae door.
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 3:02pm #
Hi all,
I have been in the door business for over 30 years, my wife worked in the industry for over 12 years, my father was in the business and my brother is also in the business.
Bottom line on replacing springs on garage doors.
Cost to hire it out, Total cost. Labor & Material
Replace one torsion $100.00 - $150.00.
Replace two torsion $150.00 - $250.00.
Replace two extension on a one car door, $100.00 - $150.00
Replace two extension on a two car door, $150.00 - $200.00 but as much as $500.00 ( older, heavy two car extension spring door can have very large springs )
These prices are TOTAL labor and material. And are approximate.
All spring jobs should include lube and adjustment of both the door and opener + a safety inspection. INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF THE SPRING REPLACEMENT. Any additional work should be billed time and material and quoted before the work is done. There are many things that can break and or wear out on a garage door or opener.
Torsion springs are bought and sold by weight. There are several major spring manufactures in the country, and they all are very close in price. A dealer in Florida is paying pretty much the same as a dealer in Oregon. Same for all door hardware and opener parts and controls, not bought by weight, but priced the same throughout the country.
There are many different sized springs, the factors involved are: Inside diameter, wire diameter and length. All of these effect the overall weight of a spring. A average torsion spring on a two car residential door should cost the end user approximately $50.00. This price is effected buy the price of metal at the time the spring was made and shipping costs to the dealer. Over the past year the raw costs involved in manufacturing springs have varied greatly from month to month and shipping costs have also varied greatly. The $50.00 price mentioned above is a rough average and does not include labor to install or any other charges, just the cost of one average torsion spring.
Extension springs should cost the end user approximately $20.00 - $50.00 for one spring for a one car door and $20.00 - $100.00 for one extension spring for a two car door. The more the door weighs, the more the spring will cost. Again, springs on older, heavy doors can cost over $100.00 ea.
These are the facts regarding spring costs.
When we talk about labor, we have to take into effect the area of the country, so therefore this can vary widely.
Lets say Indianapolis IN. Today's market.
Replace one torsion spring on a residential door, $50.00 - $150.00
Replace two torsion springs / residential door, $75.00 - $200.00
Replace extension springs, residential door, $50.00 - $150.00
This is LABOR, add the cost of the spring or springs to these numbers, and again all are approximate., but close to actual.
Full page adds in the yellow pages vs one line adds in the yellow pages.
Bigger companies have bigger overhead, they need to produce more revenue. They are also more apt to have fully insured employees that make decent wages and have benefits. Many of the bigger companies have several long term employees.
Some of these big companies are fair and honest some are not.
Smaller one man operations and small family ran garage door business. Less overhead, less revenue needed. Likely an installer or service person who has decided to break away from a bigger company and hang out their own shingle. You will find some very dedicated people in this group and you will also find some real scam artists.
There is no pat answer as to a bigger or smaller company is better than the other. Same goes for the size of the add in the phone book. A guy with a small add will tell you that all the folks that run full page adds are ripping you off, and the guy with the full page add will tell you to stay away from the " tailgater" with nothing to loose.
DO YOUR HOME WORK.
As to the talk about how long does this take.
A good door man can run 8 - 10 service calls in an 8 to 10 hour day. Not all service calls are broken springs mind you. Typical replacement of two torsion springs takes 45min to 1 hour, of on the job time.
Same job for a first timer should take about 2-3 hours after studying up on the subject and taking the time needed to do it safely.
Do it your self:
Yes, it can be done, is it dangerous, yes it is. But so is using a circular saw, a drill, lawn mower, cleaning your gutters or crossing the street for that matter.
Just as you should do your homework choosing a " professional " to repair your door, if you choose to repair it yourself, you must also do your homework.
In the times we currently live in there will be more of a need for many people to become more self sufficient. Garage door repair is only one of the many things that we will all start looking at as a means to save money.
Steve
Posted 19 May 2010 at 11:30pm #
This was really helpful info. I believe I was overcharged, and I used your quote to support a request for a partial refund, which I got!
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 3:12pm #
Leslie. I don't know your geographical location, but where I live, I would say you REALLY were taken advantage of! I haven't seen your "pole" torsion tube, but it probably didn't need to be replaced, as well as the cable "torsion" drums. They don't wear out! As for the cables, they can get frayed, an need to be replaced. Seldom!
It doesn't hurt to replace rollers and cables if they warant it.Even the bearings on the torsion tube. If the tube has been ruined from overtightening springs and drums, then the tube should be replaced. Whenever someone wants to do that extensive a service, ALWAYS ask to see the old parts, and watch them remove them so you can see that they aren't old parts from someone elses door! Have the tech show you the difference between the old and the new, BEFORE he installs them. Also, VERY unusual to have BOTH springs break at the same time.
I can't stand a liar or a thief. Sounds like your tech was both! Gullibility is no excuse for ripping people off! WD
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 6:06pm #
Leslie, looks about $150.00 more than you could have paid. One thing to remember, the job is done and you're happy. I'll second the info. Warren supplied, and only add call your local BBB before you have any contractor/company come out to your house. Their code of ethics is the best around. Documentation on the business complaint history is provided at no charge. Good Luck!!!
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 9:03pm #
Tate, we should conclude that after you find that someone has taken advantage of you, and you have found out about it, call the BBB and report them. It may save someone else the same experience!
WD
Posted 19 Mar 2009 at 9:49pm #
Kirby, while 6-800 dollars is obtuse, replacing a 30 year old Crawford or OHD oak frame door with a non insulated POS is just as obtuse. Now if you want to go with any type of sandwich steel, I see your point. Putting springs, cables, rollers, drums( and yes they do wear out, the set screw holes strip out and crack) and headplates with bearings, is an excellent repair to one of those types of doors. The older solid wood doors ( not pine)are 10 times better. So I would conclude, give your customer options and let them decide whats best for them. Good Luck Everyone!!!!
Posted 20 Mar 2009 at 2:03am #
Thanks for your comments everyone. By the way I am in Northern California, SF Bay area. Both springs did not break at the same time. The first one broke and was pointed out to me probably a few years ago, but I didn't know what that meant, the door was opening fine as far as I knew. This door is on my parents house, where I do not live. Oh also he said we had old cables that were actually fine but the "law" was that the cables they install now for that type of door should be a thicker heavier type. I feel a little better, Tate that I think you're saying that he replaced what he should have. Also, the door itself looks to be in excellent condition, and I think it is pretty heavy too. Although most are saying that I surely did get overcharged, I'm ok with it because the reason it was such an emergency (not that this detail is important!) was not because we needed to get a car out of the garage to get to work or it was in danger of falling on someone, but my 85 year old father who has dementia was climbing ladders and trying to take apart the thing saying he could fix it, because he built it (not true) therefore endangering himself. I needed it fixed and I got it fixed. I should let it go now or I will drive myself crazy!! Thanks again all.
Posted 26 Mar 2009 at 9:14am #
My wife tried to open the garage door this a.m. and it went up about six inches. After investigating in the garage, I looked up to discover the torsion spring was broken. I have heard horror stories abour these things from my neighbors, so I called a pro located not too far from me. He came out and talked to me about it and said that you should replace both springs, since the other one will break soon. I didn't want to be around when that happened!! He quoted me a price of $195.00. I live in Dearborn, MI and this is a local company with a good rep. so I said go ahead. He's out there right now and said it should take about an 1/2 to one hour. It seems like a small price to pay for a project that I don't want anything to do with.
Posted 26 Mar 2009 at 11:09pm #
Smart move and the right price.
Posted 06 Apr 2009 at 7:39pm #
I got both springs replaced including everything for $165. The guy finished the job in 40 minutes. I live in San Francisco bay area.
Posted 08 Apr 2009 at 6:51pm #
This is the second time in 22 years torsion springs broke. This time I started educating myself before I started calling for professional installation.
To be equipped with information prior to calling makes getting quotes more accurate and cheaper:
-size of the door
-if wooden, how many panels
-length of each spring (add the lengths of the two portions of the broken spring)
-look for the first three numbers written on the spring (representing the size of the wire used in making the spring, my example was 262)
-replacing just one spring is about $40.00 cheaper than both at one time (not worth it, as the other is going to snap in 1-2 months later)
-the gentleman came, confirmed the measurements and is expected to come back tomorrow to install
-price quoted $160.00 for both springs (in Gwinnett County, outside Atlanta)
-when finished and if satisfied, I'll post his name and phone after job done
Posted 11 Apr 2009 at 4:49pm #
Mr Pashi, for someone to have to come out to your house, measure and then come back the next day sounds like they do this part time. Any true Door company will have the necessary parts to do the job the first trip out, and not waste your valuable time. I would be interested in who you used because I live in the same county as yourself. There are several companies in your area that could provide better service than that. Good Luck!!!!
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 10:19am #
Yes, the young gentleman (Jeremy 678-591-14420, in an Atlanta suburb) came the next day and installed the springs. I guess because this man is a small outfit, I got a more personal, cheap and satisfactory job. I didn't mind him coming back the next day ("wasting my valuable time", as Tate says in his above response) with the right spring size.
Being that Tate brought up the aspect of "Any true Door company" would have done the job right on the first trip: I have to mention that I called all those top names (with catchy "Garage door specialists") first, and got intimidated with their scared tactics that they were the only ones who know how this should be done properly, but with loafty prices. A few would not even quote an approx. price. But when I contacted this young man, who had only a one line address in the yellow pages, he not only quoted me a price from the gross dimensions I gave, came out to on his way to another job to verify. He also did not charge extra for the heavier gauge spring required.
The net is full of examples of how unsuspecting and naive people have been ripped of simple repairs. I thought of using this forum to benefit others. Thanks.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 6:56pm #
Mr. Pashi, sounds like you got a great job at a fair price. Glad to hear it. Just sounded like you had a part timer on your hands. Agreed, companies that won't quote you a price over the phone for a simple spring job, have something to hide. You can also go to the better business bureau for a listing of good companies. Just beware of the smaller company warranties and limits of liability. They sometimes don't have the insurance to cover the mistakes that can be made from time to time!!! Have seen and heard about some crazy ones!!! Good Luck, you found a needle in a haystack!!!
Posted 07 Jun 2012 at 12:50pm #
Mr. Pashi based on your strong recommendation I contacted the young man you referred Jeremy to have him replace one torsion spring. I had one torsion spring replaced by one of the "larger print ad companies" who charged me +$200 for the job including mileage. About 2 hours after the job was completed my door suddenly stopped working. I called this same company back to have someone come back next day to see what the problem was. According to the service rep there was a gear that had gone out on the motor that opens the door and since the unit was old and outdated he recommended that it be replaced. I asked if he could replace the other torsion spring while he was at it and he quoted me the same price as the one replaced the previous day (+$200). I passed and told him to just replace the motor unit (+$400). I then called Jeremy and explained I just had service work done on my garage and only had one Torsion spring replaced and wanted the other replaced. He quoted me a much more reasonable price and came out next day. He was pleasant and thorough as he explained what he was doing and why. I was pleased with his service and have will have no problem referring him and his company
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 11:15am #
rj1627 is the typical customer, he even says that he thought its was such a small fee for something like that. Why dont all you scum bag garage door companies go work for a company or Mc donalds for that matter, and make french fries. You people are losers who dont know how to run a business, your more concerned with showing or proving to people you can do a spring change, whippie doo, you better start thinking of your future, before you get old and sick, you wont have a pot to piss in to pay your bills then and will regret what your writing and charging today. Ok you win the prize on how low you can charge, now go out and start experience charging people before its too late, and Im not talking about five more dollars either, Im talking 5 to 7 hundred for springs, use your damn head that god has giving you and charge you idiots. I know your probably gonna say knowone pays that for springs, well I have been doing this for more then 24 yrs. and I had more probem customers when I charged low prices, trust me it works, and thats what they expect to pay, your just giving away you labor you saps.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 1:22pm #
A.H, Rectom, Mr. T, or whatever your name is; If you are so busy installing, repairing, and replacing springs at such an exorbitant fee, and making them "like it," how do you find the time to try to be funny on the p.c?
WD
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 1:58pm #
In my city you would be run out of town if you tried charging 5 to 7 hundred for a spring change that others charge $195.00 for. Ripping people off is bad bussiness any way you look at it. When the customer figures out he has been had, you will be the one who suffers Mr. Rectom. Please people shop and compare.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 2:11pm #
ewhhhhhhhhhh "please people shop and compare" like people are even reading this. Like you are a concerned person, you make me sick. The reason i am able to sit here and write this, Mr. Wade or whoever you are, is that I charge enough to hire people and not have to do the work myself. Your just a bum, who thinks people care about what your saying, get a life you idiot, knowone cares. Your probably an oaky from mascoaky, and think 150 dollars is all the money in the world, my minimum service charge is higher then your springchanges. I reset cabes for 389.00. You bums are spinning your wheels. Im retiring this yr. with over 4 million in the bank, I will be recieving approx 36 thousand in dividened each month on my money, and you poor bastards will still be doing frigging springchanges for nothing . Think of me floating in warm tropical water somewhere with my colorful drink in my hand with a little umbrella covering the drink and a orange slice, while your hands are all greasy, and you have to ring a strangers door bell and talk to them when really they dont want you anywhere near there house. ewhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Im glad i made it through this business and now im out because you people today are real idiots.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 2:16pm #
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 2:21pm #
you could get springs, gold,green, whites, yellow, any spring for about 8 to 10 dollars each, from wayne dalton and other places if you buy in quantity, but you are just a one man show and cant afford to buy them that way because your a bum and dont charge enough thats why these suppliers charge you the highest price, because they here what comes out of your mouth and know your a bum so they charge you more, I pay those prices and have for yrs. and everyone I know in the business does too. The only ones that get charged more are bums like you because thats the only way these companies will sell to you bums. hahahahahhhahahhahhaahhahaahaha
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 2:38pm #
Wow, Mr Rectom you are so helpful! Wayne Dalton sells springs?
I'm so glad to hear that. Maybe Clopay, Raynor and Amarr sell springs too. I never would have thought of that. I just thought they sold Garage Doors.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 7:33pm #
hey mr big bob the loser, then why did you ask me where I got springs for 8-9 dollars, freak.
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 8:24pm #
All you legit door companies! This A.H. is getting his jollies by trying to rile the rest of us. He don't get his springs for 8 or 9 dollars, unless they come from China. If he is legit, he gets them the same places as the rest of us. Either a door company, or Iowa spring, or one of the others. It may figure out to about 7 to 10 bucks, if you buy snakes and cone them. As for the prices he says he charges, -----Can't be real! He would have to be servicing people in his own community--- I don't have to tell you where these people are! Ignore him, and he will get tired and go away! (It would be my guess the door companies got tired of him and won't sell to him!)
Posted 12 Apr 2009 at 10:27pm #
Hey warren you freak, I buy my springs coned, and I by 2 or 3 hundred at a time. Thats what I pay and theres no way for me to prove to you what I charge because you would tell the customers they paid too much, thats the trailer trash mentality you have I could tell. I could care less about you freaks, all Im trying to say is you losers have ruined this industry and charge less then what my old boss charged in the 70s. Its time to get a life, i bet you do your own oil changes and tune ups on your car too right. I could smell a scumbag a mile away. Have fun going into debt, Im retiring in a few months you suckers. Waste your life doing it for nothing, it doesnt bother me anymore, I just wanted to tell you people that since I have heard this stuff so long it makes me sick. barffffffffff
Maybe I get these prices from the manufactures because I pay my bills with them on time, they tell my Im one of the only one that does, so as far as them not selling to me, WRONGGGGGGGGG, they love me.
Posted 18 Apr 2009 at 10:46am #
I just paid $198 for both springs (in Michigan) and it took the guy 40 minutes to install.
Posted 18 Apr 2009 at 9:33pm #
I just had my springs replaced today. They came out and quoted me about $350 for both. But I told them I called around and got a bid for $195 for both, so they came down to $200 complete for both springs. So they will negotiate on price so don't be afraid to try. And yes, the bigger the yellow page ad the higher the bid was. And don't let them try to talk longer warranty cost more. My last springs lasted 11 years and they were the lowest warranty and cheapest. And NEVER pay for trip fees for an estimate, that's just plain wrong!!!
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 12:13pm #
An excellent site for checking out door companies is http://www.ripoffreport.com. Rectom, if you enter your company name there I think you'll discover what customers really think of your service.
Posted 25 Apr 2009 at 11:14pm #
I just came back from the "Rip Off Report" that Mr. Musick refered to. I was amazed at the prices some of these companies were able to charge, because people assumed they were legit because of the large ads. Then when presented the bill, went into shock! I noticed that most of these companies had the same name, but no one knew who the owners were. What are the bets Mr A.H. Rectom is involved?
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 2:01pm #
You guys must be friendless losers to be sitting on here writing back and fourth. Mc Donalds are hiring if you have nothing to do. As for ripoff.com or whatever that your talking about, all my customers love me. And for the phrase that when customers found out they were shocked, your such a loser to say they werent legit,as if you guys are. They have webber bar b qs on sale why dont you go down there and pick one up you trailer trash people.
Posted 26 Apr 2009 at 3:18pm #
Yep, that site helps with the cartoon type yellow page ad companies you see in the phone book. They are all one company and don't have an office for you to go see them face to face. Do business with a company that you can go and complain to if there is an issue.
Posted 27 Apr 2009 at 11:46am #
innercore, A.H, rectom, or whatever you really are;
Talk about " the pot calling the kettle black," How do you find the time to make such ridiculous statements? You give mention to McDonalds so much, I figure you must be a manager of one, because you sure don't seem to know much about the garage door business!
Posted 11 May 2009 at 12:58pm #
I find the people funny who think $350 to $400 is too much. Keep getting the sub-$200 people to replace your springs....I saw every 4-7 years in some of these posts that that is what they last. You should get 20 years out of torsion springs...unless they are used, wrong size, or just cheap imports. I figure by the time you finally call me and I rack up the cost of all the parts you blew out with cheap springs it will be about $500 to $600 from me and another $1000 you wasted. Sorry but that is a fact. Last week I had to put up two springs, 2 drums, a gear kit for the opener and a center bearing for a guy who had spent $185 every 3 or 4 years for 12 years getting the same cheap single spring on a double door. Single springs on big doors wear the drums, his plastic bushing was trashed, and the crappy weak springs tore his opener gear out. He thought the $550 I charged was too much. I told him call the other guy...I am sure he will up his price with additional needed parts and he can call me back in another 3 years to fix the spring again. All told with my charge he spent $1295 on his door. When I was done with 2 springs, steel bearing, drums, gear, aligned the door (aligning doors correctly fixes a lot of problems), and correctly reset the springs I got the comments I usually get. "Wow! This door has never been this smooth. I can't believe it."
Buy a door for $600? Go ahead. Get that cheap crap. The builders buy the same door for $350. You get what you pay for. Sunday I had 2 houses...one 3 years old and the other a year and a half...I put a new door in the 3 year old one...cheap Clopay door...and rebuilt the spring system on the other. Why? Because as Americans you think price is not relevant. You want a McD burger you get a bad burger. Want a steak burger...go somewhere nice. Same goes for doors. When we quote doors we give options...but everyone gets the cheapest. Yes it is better than what they already have...cheap 26 gauge, single spring, .50 cent rollers, and plastic bushings is what we tear out...but for a really good door pay the extra $200 for a 24 gauge door with upgraded hardware.
I find it funny that people are willing to pay $800-$1600 for a front door that is 3ft. by 7.5 ft. but want to buy a 16ft. by 7ft. steel door for $500 that weighs almost 200lbs. and goes over your head!?
Fix the springs yourself please...I love that. After 14 years I have run into so many people who have destroyed their door worse than it was when it broke. And yes...I have seen blood on the floor when someone does something stupid. They may not kill you but I have seen enough stitches in people's faces and hands to know that they will hurt you.
Best comment from customer after $600 worth of work and 3 hours of replacing a ton of parts and undoing all the bad work done over 2 years. "Holy crap! You actually fixed my door!" She was stunned. She had never heard the opener run before because the door was so messed up. Some schmuck told her that she needed a new opener...she got a 3/4 chain drive for $450 installed. If she had called me first...she wouldn't have needed the opener replaced because the door was the problem.
You can pay what you think is right $200, $300, $400, $1000...doesn't matter to me. You will know the difference when I leave and you will not only be thoroughly pleased...you will tell your friends. It's not the money that matters...it is who does the work. And I do the same quality work no matter what the price but I too have overhead...gas, oil changes, parts, nuts and bolts, mortgage, and food for me and the family. I don't do it for free.
Posted 11 May 2009 at 6:08pm #
See theres another guy like me, the spring guy. Hes not afraid to charge, he sounds like me. All you other losers dont belong in the business, its about the money you idiots. You seem to think people care that you could wind a spring, they dont. Change you numbers, its a numbers game, and make some money. Watch how your life changes from trailer trash to a rich guy. You probably charge so low because you cant believe the customers using you in the first place. I understand if you feel your a loser and cant charge anyone. Im glad im retiring and dont have to deal with losers like you anymore, Im glad the spring guy confirmed my last emails and charges high too. I was beginning to think all garage door people were losers. Right on spring guy, maybe I know you.
Posted 11 May 2009 at 9:48pm #
I don't know where you buy your springs, but saying they should last twenty years is a stretch. You would have to put .306 wire on a door that took .262 to make them last twenty years. 10 years is the life expectancy for today's doors. As far as pricing, charge whatever you want. The marketplace will determine if you stay in business or not.
Posted 11 May 2009 at 10:32pm #
Ten years with AVERAGE usage! More accurately, roughly 10,000 cycles. I've changed standarad 10,000 cycle springs with hi-cycle springs because some people use their doors a dozen times or more a day. They will only last a couple of years with that much usage. Thats why no one guarantees how long a spring will last.
As far as wrong springs causing problems with the opener, that much is true! But, if the door "balances," the opener will only over work if the door needs attention in the area of rollers, bearings, or alignment, and I also, have been called to "fix" a door that someone had just repaired, and didn't operate properly. Occassionaly someone is in the field who hasn't been properly trained!
I still only charge a fair price for the work done. I don't try to make the weeks income off one job!
Posted 12 May 2009 at 1:56pm #
This warren guy is a fucking idiot, and for saying your price will determine if you stay in business, your scum, its the other way around, if you charge too low and you and you get sick or injured or business slows down you cant pay your bills, if you charge high you can weather the storms, havent you ever heard the saying save for a rainy day you idiot. Like I said before, go back to Mc Donalds and make french fries.
Posted 12 May 2009 at 2:37pm #
A.H. Rectom! The want- to- be door company! The French Fry cooker at McDonalds! Ha Ha Ha!
Posted 12 May 2009 at 3:52pm #
Gentlemen,
For some of us consumers, we're using the courtesy of Web to inquire/post their needs/experiences. Within the framework of decency, where different opinions are not only health, but expected, indecent verbage is uncalled for and only adds to distaste, not to participate.
From the repeated posts of Warren, Tate & Rectom, one can definitely see a conflict of interest that they have to "earn a living". But please understand gentlemen, its the consumer who pays for your "living", whether you you earned it or not. Let us victims use blogs like this, to ask and/or educate themselves; than get disgusted with your selfishness in trade or service, let alone using poor language to convince the other.
Posted 12 May 2009 at 6:53pm #
Joe, You are totally correct! I admit, my taking this guys slanderous remarks remarks personally, and that he has been attacking the whole industry has led me to get off course. I'll not feed his ego any longer, and I apologize to any and all I may have offended. Thank you, Joe, for your post. It made me more aware of what is going on here!
Posted 12 May 2009 at 8:10pm #
Yep, I'm outta here, this has turned into a soap opera!! Good Luck Everyone!!
Posted 13 May 2009 at 11:28am #
Warren and Tate are being very honorable to users of this blog. Thank you
This though should not mean that you both totally pull out and not let your civic duty help others with your skill.
Sometimes we all want to help without getting paid or receive acknowledgment. Thats what makes us Americans who we are (or ought-to-be)
Cheers
Posted 29 May 2009 at 2:26am #
I'm not sure if I overpaid today on my spring replacement. The total job cost me $370 + a $20 tip. I had Hope Depot install a new insulated garage door 2 years ago, according to my repairman they used the wrong springs for the job. The new springs he used were a lot heavier and thicker. The drums he replaced were bigger too. He showed me the cheap plastic brackets that Home Depot used and replace them with stronger metal ones. I bent the rail to my screw drive garage door opener by using it while the spring was broken. He reinforced my garage door opener for free. It took him about 1 1/2 hours to do the job.
Posted 29 May 2009 at 10:59am #
I can't say if you paid too much, as I don't know your locality, but as far as the springs being the wrong ones depends on if the door balanced properly before a spring broke. How much is your door used? If your door has normal, or average use, the springs should last approximately 10,000 cycles. If they broke pre maturely, probably were of foreign origin, or defective material. As far as the drums are concerned, were they a larger diameter, or width? With a larger diameter, you would need a heavier spring. Would also take fewer turns to balance the door. As for the plastic bracket, I can't figure what you are refering to. There is a nylon bushing that most garage door mfgr's use on the torsion tube/spring, nothing wrong with that! Home Depot, as well as other box stores, don't make, only sell, garage doors. They have no control over what is in the box it comes in. Consumers, who are usually mostly concerned about the price, have very little to no knowledge of how to install a garage door. They figure they can save money buying it themselves, and do-it-yourself, or hire a proffessional to install it. It usually costs more in the long run, than to buy it from a local garage door company, and have someone with knowledge of the product.
I take issue with the gdo. A lot of times the owner is not informed, or if self installed, don't realize how important it is to set the up and down sensitivity to where it takes very little effort to stop the movement of the door. The less sensitive it is set, the more chance your door or opener will be damaged if a spring breaks or something stops the movement of the door. Also, ALWAYS remove any lock attached to the door when you install an operator. The operator IS the lock. With most operators, the door can't be manually opened if the operator is properly installed, without releasing the trolley from the rail.
I believe you got what you paid for, if it truly needed everything he did. The consumer isn't expected to know what part is right for their door, and can only go by what the service man tells them. That is why it is important to check and find out if the company is legitimate, before you hire them. If they have been around a while, or no bad reports from the bbb, they are usually OK!
Posted 30 May 2009 at 1:40am #
I have been around a lot of years, and have been asked to repair a door system I have never seen before. I believe he will buy a new door, but this has aroused my curiosity. The door is made up of two 4' by 7' peices, an angle iron at the top and bottom, and a short bracket at 3 1/2' feet from the bottom. All hardware is mounted on the inside of the door. The two panels have about a 1/4 gap between, from top to bottom. There is a 3 1/2" iron drum with roller bearings, and bushings betweem shaft and bearing. This shaft is stationary, and the spring is attached to the drum and anchor bracket. The drum is situated in the center, top of the door and the cable lays in the afore mentioned grove, and attaches to the bottom of the door, and to the header. The one peice door pivots on side brackets similiar to other one piece doors. The spring is of a flat wire, rather than round, and is 1 inch, or maybe 1 1/4 diameter, and has a special bend in the end of it to attach to the drum, and anchor. I didn't measure it. I figure this door is from the late 30's or 40's. Can anyone tell me the manufacture of this hardware, or if any of it is available today?
Posted 25 Jun 2009 at 1:55pm #
15 years ago I replaced my garage door torsion spring. Without any knowleged of how to do it, just my handy man instinct. I was able to do the job, not after some miserable mistake that may have seriously injured may self or worse. Now after 15 years the same spring broke. With may experieced of doing it and learning more on the web I could have easily replaced safely. But my garage door need replacement anyway. The lowest it has been estimated including everything (opener etc.) on 2 door with 103 " x 80" size is $2400.00. Do not attempt to install the torsion spring if you don't have enough knowledge it's so scary what i have experienced. If you do, the web have enough instruction to be followed so you can do it safely. Good luck!
Posted 26 Jun 2009 at 4:51pm #
look at the way this last idiot spelled his words, talk about trailer trash. coyotet,, Im embarrassed to be affilliated with this business with people like this
Posted 27 Jun 2009 at 10:43am #
I was very happy to leave it to the professionals. They come out a half hour after we called (on a Saturday no less). Both springs were replaced in about 20 minutes. I have a three year warranty on parts and one year on labor. It cost me $225. In my mind, that's money very well spent.
Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 9:51pm #
Jules,
For an "after hours" call, I would say you did very well. Sounds like you found a "humanitarian" who does his job like it should be done, and is trying to establish, or maintain a customer base. These are the contractors you don't mind refering to your friends! 😉
WD
Posted 28 Jun 2009 at 10:01pm #
Coyotet, Did you notice the critic about your spelling, doesn't capitalize, and double comma's where should be only one? Talk about "word perfect!" 😳
This will be my last comment to Rectom. I refuse to lower myself to that level "again!"
Posted 30 Jun 2009 at 11:06pm #
I have been sitting here bored reading on this Peyton Place website. Warren, You and a few others offer a lot of good advice, where as Rectum just seems to be in his own little world. To claim he has 4 million in the bank and will retire in warm area sipping dark drinks only tells me he has ripped off a lot of little old ladies & guys and doesn't spend any money. I have been in business 14 years in little resort town in SW Florida enjoying the warm weather, living on the water and sipping dark drinks or white Russian in 1 hand, fishing pole in the other, with my gal next to me, watching the sun set over the beautiful waters of the Gulf of Mexico all without having to rip anyone off. Sure I don't have much money in the bank but all my bills are paid and I and enjoying life. My charge on 2 spring replacement is $155 for 1 and $190 for 2. If a couple rollers are worn out I will throw them in for free. The rollers I use are 11 ball bearing with nylon wheels which are nice and quiet and last a long time.
The companies that charge high dollars in this area are just a one time shot. They will get no more work from that person and will be blackballed by everyone that person will tell, believe me. I have seen many companies go out of business in very short time...People are not stupid like some of you guys think. I don't even have ad in phone book or a website, all word of mouth, which can make or break you...High pricing WILL break you unless you are dealing with a bunch of retards with the mind of an 8 year old....Ok let me say 3 year old, because my 8 year old knows better. I think they are just trying to make themselves look good because none of us know them and if we did they probably have part time job at Mickie D's or Walmart.
Good luck to all of you who charge fair prices and treat people right...It all pays in the end!!! Sure we may not get rich real fast but at least we sleep well at night.
God Bless!
Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 12:22pm #
first of all mr. doorguy, let me start off by telling you I have been in business almost 30 yrs, I was trained by the guy who invented the roll up sectional garage door, I spend almost 40 thousand a month on yellow page advertisement, I cant believe youi can sit here and compare yourself to what I do, your just a hippie freelacer or moonlighter who sits around hoping someone calls you. I have more repeat customers then new ones for you info,and they all love me. Knowone thinks they pay too high unless losers like you tell them. You can say that about any business if theres some idiot out there telling people they have been overcharged or ripped off then the customer will feel that way know matter how much you have charged them. You dont deserve a job at Mc donalds you better go to Arbys or fish and chips with the way you do business. Your a typical idiot and you just proved my point even more so.
Posted 01 Jul 2009 at 10:19pm #
Rectum
You got way too much time on your hands, Sport. To call me a loser.. You have to be a fool to spend $40,000 a month on yellow page ads, I have to ask myself, who here is the loser.I spend $39.00 a month on my yellow page ad and I am busy from 8am till 7pm...6 days a week, live on the water enjoying the hell out of my life. You on the other hand sit in front of your computer putting down everyone else just to make up for your total lack of character. Here in my neck of the woods a full page ad cost $1000. Don't know where you the hell you are but you have got to have a ton of guys working for you, overcharging every customer just to pay for your ads not to mention workers comp, health insurance, liability ins, truck payments, mortgage on building, parts, phones, electric and etc before you put any money in your pocket. You must really take us all for fools.
Furthermore to call me a hippie freelancer or moonlighter just goes to show that you must have some type of problem with other door companies that charge a decent price for a great job and still have everything they want in life...Of course I am speaking for myself, don't want to try and understand what others want in life like you have everything figured out.. You don't stay in business in a small town like mine charging your prices. People call all the time to get quotes over the phone and are shocked at my service rates, yours they would pass out. I have more repeat business than any of the large companies around here. 90% of my work is word of mouth. Omega Garage Doors is the largest around here, in business since 1968 and I do better than them...In fact they are my best customer. I am always getting referrals from them when people in my town need service.
And I for one, just like Warren said, am not going to stoop any further to your level and will not comment any more to the likes of you. Get a life. I thought this forum was to help others out with good advice. You have chosen it to vent your frustrations with your life. I think that if I was as miserable as you, stalking this website seeing who you can bring down to your level, I think I'd shoot myself in the head and put us all out of our misery! 😈 I'm sorry this is not me, Your way of expressing yourself brings out the worst of me and others, Fer sure dude! See Ya on the flip side, JERK 😆 ! Oh by the way who invented the roll up sectional door, you seem to frigging know it all...It would just save me the time to look it up. I learned from a gentleman who started his company, in Tampa, in 1949. Done with YOU!
Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 1:31am #
Please, folks. Leave Rectom alone! The more you scratch it, the more it itches!
Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 1:06pm #
Warren,
I'm done scratching..Said what I wanted to say...Done with him.
But if you go back to his very first letter he came on like a bandsaw cutting everyone down, calling us scumbags and that we shouldn't reproduce and go back to McDonalds. He has a problem and I will refuse to get a pissing contest with him. But mark my words, He is the kind of person who can't give up. He enjoys degrading others and I feel sorry for him. Don't know what makes him feel so bitter. Well done with lunch..Back to work.
Sorry Rectom...You started it all..Why so bitter? 😥
Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 2:53pm #
you live in a small town and you work 6 days a week and are overloaded with a 39 dollar ad, give me a break, even if you got every call from your little 39 dollar ad, you wouldnt be busy,how many calls do you get, 1 or 2 a week, hahahahhahhahhahahhhahahhaa. Im not misrable at all I feel so good that Im not going to have to deal with people like you anymore because im getting out, Ta Ta freak
Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 2:55pm #
Another thing you mentioned all the expenses I must have if I spend 40 thousand a month, your exactly right, thats why I know what prices should be charged out there,and your just a bum who doesnt pay anything and drives around in a broken down truck, loser.
Posted 02 Jul 2009 at 4:29pm #
Door Guy
Yeah, I know how he came on, and I fed his ego myself, and I'm sorry for that. But now it's time to move on and TRY to forget there are people like that in our industry. Reminds me of the siding sales people back in the 60's and 70's, selling a job, get a down payment, and move on without doing the job. Made it hard for the legit contractors to get work. A lot had to do the job before getting any money. Even then, there were some who wouldn't pay for their materials, and the owner would find a lein against their property. I believe there are "hit and run" people in our trade also. Just do the best job you can, for a fair price, and you will do all right. Treat your customer right, he will remember you, and refer you! I can't tell you how many customers I have had that wouldn't call the installer back just because he was rude, unprofessional, or not knowledgeable of his product, or just didn't make his customer feel comfortable with him. I've been paid for service calls that the original installer should have made right, but the customer didn't feel comfortable with him. --- Didn't want him back on his place! WD
Posted 04 Jul 2009 at 1:00am #
Amen Warren, I've always do a good job, fair price and show up when I say verses many that keep customer waiting or don't even show up then proceed to charge them astronomical prices. I have heard horror stories what people have been charged. Some repairs I feel guilty charging but I have bills to pay and tried to tell them how to fix it over the phone but still want me to come out. I have several calls every week that I tell them how to fix the problem over the phone. Sure I don't make any money that way but referrals I get pays many times over. In this retirement town word gets around very fast, especially bad words. I never get money upfront to install doors...Makes customer feel better knowing that they gave someone money and may never see them again or spent money for other things. Many are on fixed incomes, need work done but can't pay. I will always work something out or pay me when they can...Again word gets around and have never been shafted.
I do apologize for getting in pissing contest with you know who. Sometimes I like to egg people on it takes away from the everyday boredom but to you and others, again I apologize. That is not me!! I'm always here to help.
FM
Posted 04 Jul 2009 at 1:41am #
Door Guy, I had the same problem, as did Tate. I guess we felt we had to defend ALL the ligitimate garage door people, inclding ourselves. Joe Pashi brought it to our attention that we were as bad as the other party, by feeding his ego. Just kept fueling the onslaught! I am ashamed to have been a party to it, but will continue to give good advice when I am able.
I wasn't taught by anyone. I saw a need to start a garage door company, observed, went to a couple of Martin's seminars while installing doors in buildings I built, and learned to solve problems myself because I had no one to call on to learn from. I moved to Portland, Or. and started a door company, and REALLY got an education! When you learn by doing, and solving your own problems, and most of them were "common sense" issues, you don't forget!
Most of my business comes from "word of mouth" and repeat costomers. I have a website, but have found that more people call from yellow pages than the website.
WD
Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 2:20am #
Just paid $439 for 2 torsion spring replacement with lifetime warranty. Does seem like too much. The springs were not broken, but the door would not open anymore, and the tech would not wind up the springs more to make the door open, he said they were going to break soon. Precision Door company in San Diego, he said they were a franchise. I did try to wind up the springs more, but managed to make it worse because the screw driver I was using to wind the spring tighter jumped out of the winder hole, so it unwound rather suddenly. I has no idea how many turns it should have, now I know it is approximately 8. At that point I realized I was over my head and needed an expert.
Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 6:03pm #
More on my springs repair, the home ( and therefore I assume the door) was 5 years old. The door would open if I "helped it" by pushing up on it while the opener was trying to open it. This suggests to me that the springs had lost tension, as it was steadily getting worse, doors would open less often without help each day. The door is working well now, I m happy with everything except the cost.
Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 4:20pm #
Sorry, Jan.
I'm afraid there are some people who don't care about working for anyone more than once! There is no way you can tell when a spring is about to break. I don't know why your door wouldn't open any longer, but you may have had some maintenance issues. Like lube the bearings and rollers. You didn't say whether or not you tried opening your door with the opener detached, or how long the springs had been in service.
I won't mention names, but some of the "franchise" companies don't have a local office or service tech you can talk to. They have a switchboard that takes your call and sells the lead to several subscribers. They will each call the client and make their bid, and the winner gets to keep a small amount for himself, and pay the franchise the rest. It's always best to keep your money local. Then you know who to call when your "lifetime" springs break! I would bet there are more than a couple of garage door companies in San Diego that would have done the job for less $
Posted 07 Jul 2009 at 4:21pm #
Precision Door Company is one of those you need to check out at http://www.ripoffreport.com. What good is a lifetime warranty if they won't even come out to fix it right the first time?
I followed up on a similar case in Wheaton, IL. The Precision Door service technician installed the wrong springs with a lifetime warranty for $350. The door wouldn't work properly and the installer refused to return until the customer forced them to. For an additional $4-500 they would have corrected the problem and upgraded the hardware. I fixed the door for a little over $100. The opener was also damaged because of the incorrect springs. Much of the newer hardware they would have installed was inferior to the existing hardware. The customer had no recourse because they had to sign a contract before the springs were replaced. I don't know of any reputable garage door companies that do this.
Posted 08 Jul 2009 at 1:05am #
Dan
Same thing here. On Sunday I received call around 10am from old customer saying 1 of her springs had broken and she needed it right away. We didn't get home from church until 12:30 and I called her right away. She was a little rude saying since I didn't call her right back so she called every ad in phone book and the only 1 that she got hold of was Precision Garage Door 👿 . I told her my price, even on Sunday, was $190.00 to replace both springs and if she didn't mind to tell me what they charged, $325.00. She also said the guy was rude and after replacing springs he was working on her opener for some reason. Later in the day she called me saying her door wouldn't open door. I came over and found that he had put the wrong springs on the door and had turned up force setting to lift door. I told her that openers were meant to open and close the door not lift it. Due to the fact the springs were too small of wire for her door it was not balanced. I told her to call the tech back and tell him to make it right. He told her it would be an overtime service call and travel charge of about $175.00 but told her that there was nothing wrong with the springs but the problem was with her opener and it needed to be replaced for $450.00.
Bottom line is she called me, I went back over replaced her springs with right ones, put her's in my stock, added center bearing that he should have installed, adjusted force settings on opener so it would actually work if door came down on anything and lube all hardware on door and opener, which he didn't, and charged her a $100.00. She was happy to get door working again but upset she spent so much money in the first place, wishing she would have not panicked and just waited for me.
Precision has taken advantage of many others and don't know how they can stay in business. I'm sure they don't get much repeat business. With their fancy full page ad it really sticks out. Most people don't realize it takes a lot of service calls just to pay for that ad and they are the ones that pay. Bigger is not always better and should try and use people in their own town to avoid other charges like trip/mileage charges or ask friends who they use. 90% of my work is word of mouth, it can make or break you! I have been very blessed over the years.
Best of luck to all. FM
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 8:59pm #
I just had a garage door company (Garage Door Service Co. or GDS) replace my springs and they charged me over $500 for two springs and labor, and this is on a normal house garage. The tech didn't put a breakdown of the cost, so I called the company to see what I was billed for. The guy said he doesn't charge by the hour, he charges labor by the job, and he only uses special galvanized springs, blah, blah... I told him,, I wish your tech would've mentioned that prior to handing me a bill for $500. He told me, why would he, this is a business, we're in it to make money. What kind of business practice is that? I'm guessing I got robbed big time. Paid $300 bucks for an hour of labor, what a crock, and the owner of this business admitted to me he only pays his guys $10 an hour. To top it off, the company that came out to do the work, wasn't even the company that I called out of the phone book. The phone book ad was another company I guess that sells this crap service for the parent company, which is on the invoice. GDS, Garage Door Service Co., who of course use a PO Box to do business. If these guys ever show up at your house, be prepared to be bent over. I wish I would have seen this forumn prior and saved myself some money, but my garage door was broke, and these guys obviously took advantage of me.
Posted 18 Dec 2010 at 10:49pm #
I wished I saw your complaint before I hired GDS first. They are terrible. They will give you false repair that unnecessay. They are not honest. Basically, you have to replace every parts you need for your garage.
Posted 17 Jul 2009 at 12:48am #
Lyndah, I can't stress enough the need to call more than one company and get prices BEFORE the work begins! I realize you needed it done asap, but, find out how much it will cost first! There is an old saying, nobody can take advantage of you unless you let them! I wish there were a way to get the word to EVERYONE, ask price before you agree!
Posted 17 Jul 2009 at 3:16am #
Dear ALL,
I went to Home Depot trying to purchase a new set of springs and they told me they don't carry them since it's too dangerous to replace without a professional.
I checked online and read an article which was very helpful from Dan at DDM Garage Doors. After reading it and normally how much others pay, I've decided to have someone install.
I found couple phone nos on the yellow pages and I asked the garage guys how much it will cost for both springs replaced. Both guys said $160 after I told them I have vinyl panels inside (supposedly without inserts will cost less) One guy agreed to come out right away around 8:30pm and he wnated to charge me an extra $20 after seeing it's an 8 foot high door that I have.
Finally we met at $170 and he finished the job in less than an hour.
Considder I don't have the tools he used to wind the springs and the costs to buy the springs online plus shipping charges and time, I think it's not bad for the deal I got.
The key is to ask the "best price they can do for" over the phone before having someone come out.
Thanks again Dan for the prompt reply!
Lawrence from California 🙂
Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 1:05pm #
Like VS (posted on 28 Sept 2008), my spring is broken but I also found that "press and hold" the button will still open the garage door just fine.
Why is there a need to change the spring then?
Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 2:11pm #
I believe if you continue to force open the door when the spring is broken, your opener/motor might go out soon too.. that's my guess.
Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 2:32pm #
The most important reason to replace the springs is that you are likely to bend the top of the door. That can cost several hundred dollars to repair. If the section is obsolete, you can end up paying $1,000 or more for a new door. Whenever a customer tells us they have a broken spring we always recommend not using the door until new springs are installed.
Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 10:53pm #
It has been my experience that when most people call, they have already tried to open their door. The damage has been done, or their door just won't open. I have repaired doors that had openers professionally installed, and the tension was not sensitive enough, due to the professional not adjusting it, or the customer re-adjusting it. I don't know how to protect the home owner when the box stores are making it so easy for do it yourself "handy men." I always advise my customers to call me if they have a problem with their door. I adjust the opener to open the door, and sometimes conditions change and it is too sensitive. I re adjust for n/c.
I have some advice for some who don't already know. There are scammers out there who want you to sell them some doors. They will give you an e mail address of a shipping company for shipping costs, and want to give you a credit card. The card checks out ok until after the doors are shipped. Then the owner of the card reports it lost or stolen, and then try to prosecute you for processing their card, as they never ordered any doors! I was offered the door deal, but was cautious because of use of words and spelling of common words. I asked averyone I knew, and found the scam in a garage door publication.
There is always the possibility an order could be legitimate. Check it out carefully! WD
(This alert was not intended for Rectom, as he can probably afford to take the risk! Who knows? it could have been a $5000 profit deal I passed up!)
Posted 25 Aug 2009 at 11:07pm #
One thing I meant to include in my post. If you can open your door by holding the button, you are puting excessive stress on your unit, which will shorten the life of your unit. Remember, an opener is designed to do what you don't want to, not what you can't! If the door won't balance, it needs attention! WD
Posted 26 Aug 2009 at 4:28pm #
This WD guy thinks hes the guy who is gonna crack the code. He is just trying to solicit business on here acting like he is noledgable about doors, we all know the things hes talking about, if you look at the motor where the wires go in, the side where the antena hangs usualy, there are dials with are self explanatory, anyone can do it. Dont listen to this fool, he acts like you need to be a rocket scientist to do this.
Posted 27 Aug 2009 at 12:21am #
Actually, Rectom, I am pretty knowledgeable about doors. That's why I try to inform people who are not, and try to help them keep out of trouble.
You obviously missed part of my comment. I remarked that sometimes the installer will skip the part about adjusting the sensitivity, be it the pro, or homeowner. I said nothing about anyone not knowing how to do it!
I must have missed something---tell me how posting opinions can get me business, and no one knows where I am located?
One more thing, Rectom. I may not be a scholar, but I don't advertise my ignorance with a poor choice of words, or misspelling every other word!
Posted 29 Aug 2009 at 11:18pm #
Warren,
You do a great service here on the board and people should be blessed that you are here to answer their questions. Where Rectom gets off constantly putting you down, all of us can't understand. It is obvious that he is sure showing his ass. All he does is bitch like an old woman, not to put down older women, but you know what I mean. Rectom, You are telling people to look where the wires are and you'll see the dials to turn and it's not rocket science. You failed to say that before you make any adjustments that you should disconnect the opener by pulling emergency release cord, with the door in the down position and make sure you can open the door easily by hand. It should open and stay in the halfway position and stay. If the door does not stay the springs need to be adjusted to bring door back into balance. This is NOT a job for most homeowners if they have TORSION springs. Well that just goes to show your limited knowledge on openers. Not all dials are where you said. Some like older Stanleys are on the bottom where newer ones are in the back. Allister openers have one one both sides, open on left and close force on right. Older Genies have knob on the back where you put screwdriver in slot and turn nut by hand or wrench. Linear has wires in the back but the travel and force setting are on the side along with the learn button to set the transmitters. Should I go on?
On thing I tell customers when they have a broken spring is that door openers are meant to open and close the door not lift it. Sure they are strong enough to lift the door if you turn up the force setting up but won't last long and when the opener breaks the door could come falling down, not to mention that now you have 2 repairs...Garage door and opener. Another thing most people don't know is that you are to check force settings once a month but no one does. Most don't know where they are or how to do it. When I finish my repairs, I show the homeowner how to do it themselves, whether or not they will do it is another thing..At least I have shown them.
Warren, Keep up the good work, like I said you are a blessing and Rectom, If you don't have anything positive to offer, most of us would agree, You need to just go to another site where you can heckle others with the same mindset you have. You are a poor excuse for a repairman. You really offer any decent advice that one could use. Maybe you are a decent person at heart but come home and start drinking which brings out the worst of people. Just giving you the benefit of the doubt, or your just a poor excuse for a human being. 🙁
God bless to all.
Posted 07 Sep 2009 at 2:22pm #
I just had a torsion spring bust last night. I called 24/7 garage and Gate. I thought they quoted me 75 to a 90 for the springs plus 90 for the labor. Based on what I read, this sounded fair enough. Of course when the installer arrived (90 minutes later), he quoted me 125 per spring and 95 for labor. 345 seemed a little steep. I told him to take a hike. He got on the phone then dropped the price to 240 for everything. 105 drop in price right away made me think I was dealing with a slimeball company. I then said 200 for everything or just leave. He got on the phone and agreed to that very quickly. I should have said 180!!
If you call these guys, they are going to try to maximize all profit possible off you to the level of taking advantage. I understand the need for profits, but not screwing people to get them. The point is haggle. Even if the tech is already there. It's your money, don't be afraid to send him away. After all this I still probably paid 20 to 40 too much.
Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 2:07am #
Replacing torsion springs is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Are you handy enough to change your car brake pads...if yes you probably can change a set garage springs. The springs are $40 to $75 a set. It will take you about 2 hours for a newbie and 1 hour if you are real handy.
I can't believe these jokers are trying to scare people off. Yes it can be dangerous; so is mowing your lawn, using power tools, fixing your car.
I'm a general contractor and have never scared people off if they are competent and willing to learn. I have showed customers how to solder copper, run electrical wiring, and replace plumbing. I also tell them what can go wrong.
Reminds me of electricians telling everyone that breaker needs to be replaced by a electrician. $15 part, $60 fee, $40 service charge....10 minutes of work.
Bottom line is $175 to $225 for both springs is fair. These guys buy the spring for $50, so they are making $60 to $80 per hour. It can totally be done in 1 hour. It will take 2 hours if you stand their and watch because they feel guilty taking you money in 1 hour.
Don't laugh. I installed garage doors for 10 years, my father did it for 22 years.
Watch the garage spring video on youtube. It's actually easier than the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luQR0KGgXgo
Lastly, the job can be done VERY safely if you hold on to the cranking rods at ALL TIMES. You can slip and have the coils unwind all day, but nothing will hit you if you are holding both cranking rods!
These guys scaring everyone off really under estimate people.
Posted 18 Sep 2009 at 4:36pm #
Hello, Joking, (and you must be!) I don't give my time away, and I suspect you don't either.
It's true that some people are up to the task, but more not than are. I suppose you would rather fix your kids appendix rather than have a qualified surgeon do it, because they charge too much!
It isn't just the winding bars you have to watch out for. If you have the spring wound and tighten the set screws, release the bar you are holding tension with, and discover you didn't have the set screws tight enough, and it rips your hand with the wrench in it, can this guy come crying to you? Or, say he tightens it too tight, and thinks, maybe a little bit more, and the hole breaks out of the spring cone----OOPS! Or, the torsion tube gets distorted because he tightened it too tight. Next time it breaks and he can't get it off the torsion tube! Are you going to go help him then? NO! He will have to call a PROFESSIONAL door man, and pay him extra because he messed it up! You are really a big help, huh!
We don't just get paid as if we are sitting in your driveway waiting for your spring to break. We can't wait until we are in the neighborhood! The people need their door fixed NOW! The service man may see something else that needs attention. Cheaper to fix it while he is there than to call him back, and most of us have spare parts on our service trucks. Most of us always lube all moving parts, and inspect the door while we are there. This includes checking the sensitivity (safety reverse) as well as sag in the chain, or lube the screw, or whatever maintenance the door and opener may need. I know it isn't asked for, nor charged for, but as a courtesy, we do these things because we know YOU probably are like the majority, and don't maintain it until it breaks, or just wears out! Try taking your car to the shop! A hundred dollars an hour, and you have to pay for all the rags, cleaners, oils, etc, and they didn't even have to go to your house, or ask you to bring it in!
I could mention a dozen reasons not to attempt this job. It isn't ALL about safety, but I think most have the idea.
Just a note, I was called to repair a garage door opened yesterday. The ladys neighbor tried to help her. It was a belt drive, and the tensioner had been backed off, the cap was removed that prevents fingers from getting under the belt if accidently actuated. The motor wouldn't run, up or down. An indicater light was blinking 5 times, stop, and do it again. This opener uses this code to tell you the circuit board was bad, and needed to be replaced. This "goodfellow" caused me more work because he was in over his head.
One more thing, I agree some people charge more than "I" think they should, but you have to check the area they are in. There are some areas that almost EVERYTHING is more expensive, especially the homes and wages.
Posted 27 Sep 2009 at 11:48pm #
Any idea how much a Hormann basic white panelled garage door (no windows) and a basic Hormann garage door opener (with installation of both) should cost. I am in the Chicago area. Thanks.
Posted 28 Sep 2009 at 11:42am #
Amy, we need a little more information before we can price a door. What size is it? (width and height) Does it require low headroom track? Is it insulated? If so, do you want a "sandwich" door , or vinyl back?
I don't work the Chicago area, nor am I familiar with the Hormann products, but for any door, anywhere, these are factors that need to be known before an estimate can be given.
You are wise to ask these questions BEFORE you agree to a price, as there are those who would take advantage of "layman ignorance."
WD
Posted 28 Sep 2009 at 1:24pm #
Amy, if you pay someone too low, hes going to do a shity job or send someone to your house who doesnt speak english, and has never installed or has been trained properly. Dont go with a guy because he is qouting you a low price. Remember the saying if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I could give you an idea what to pay a guy to install your door if the guy is a decent installer. If you have a double door, anything between 12 and 16 wide the doors are 7 feet high, then you should pay around $2,500.00 for a polyurathane injected door,, if you have a single door like a 8x7, then you should pay around $1,600. Dont listen to that Warren guy about low headroom track, most guys in the business who are reptuable dont charge extra because the manufacture throws it in with the well know companies. If they are mentioning that they will charge you for that, then that alone gives you the indication they are not a buyer and respected by the manufactures in the industry. Wayne Dalton makes the best door in steel, try the 9700 model, or the Thermoguard 9600 from Wayne Dalton. Make sure they dont charge you for Low headroom track.
Posted 28 Sep 2009 at 3:32pm #
You are right I didn't give very much information. I would need a door that is 7' x 16', I don't think it requires a low headroom track, and I think I want an insulated door since it is attached to the house but I don't know about the sandwich vs. vinyl back - I guess it would depend on the cost difference.
2 other questions:
1) I am planning to replace the door, but right now it won't even open manually - I think something happened to the cable on one side - how much do you think it would be to just fix the cable? (Also FYI - my garage door has the torsion springs).
2) I already have a new garage door opened that was purchased a while back, how much do you think the installation cost would be?
Thank you so much for your help!
Posted 28 Sep 2009 at 4:05pm #
Just have someone do it and quit wasting peoples time on here.
Posted 28 Sep 2009 at 4:05pm #
😈
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 12:38am #
Amy, I can't speak for the installers in Chicago, but to install an opener in my part of the country would cost you around a hundred bucks, depending on the brand. A good door, Wayne Dalton, or other, shouldn't cost more than $1500 installed for a 16 X 7. There are doors that will cost up to $5000, but they are getting pretty fancy! There again, I can't speak for competition in your neighborhood.
If you have 14" above your door opening, you don't need low headroom track, and will have enough room for the opener. I am afraid "Rectom" is in business in Chicago, as he is running his mouth about higher prices there! If he sells a door for what he says, he doesn't need extra for low head track, or extra labor to install it! Good luck, and I hope you don't get "Rectom" to purchase your door from!
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 12:54am #
I didn't address the cable issue. The cost of a service call plus maybe $20 should more than cover the cable replacement. Why fix it if you plan to replace the complete door? Your installer can get in and un-install the door without opening it.
Is your door ok other than a broken cable? You can plan on a service call upward from $50, to whatever the traffic will bear! If you do this other than replacement, be sure the service person checks for alignment, and lubes all moving parts. Good luck! 😉 "Rectom"? 😈
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 2:08pm #
like I said before, those who pay for low headroom track with there doors are not respected in the industry and are charged by the manufactures, for that reason alone I would not recommend using them as you door company. Even if you are charged as a door dealer for 3 1/2 inch low headroom or any other type, they only cost around 23 dollars extra. Im my opinion they are even easier to install as well. Most companies dont know the true measurements as well, when they see 10 inches of headroom the think you need low headroom track, and really you dont.
Rectom
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 4:04pm #
🙂 Yes, I AM respected in the industry, and I do pay for low headroom track. It isn't much, but it IS extra! Extras are ALWAYS passed on to the consumer. They expect it, and are ok with it. What they are NOT ok with is charging so much that you can absorb these extras, and when you don't use them, you don't discount that amount to the customer.
Wayne Dalton makes a ten inch radius track that you can ask for at no extra cost. You can gain an extra inch or two by cutting a couple of inches off the bottom of the verticles. You can also use quick close top brackets and gain another few inches. The quick close brackets are an additional cost also, however, not a lot! I often use an extra top track cut to make a double track for the top fixture rollers to run in. Any of these techniques take time and material, and warrant an additional cost! These techniques also take away from the smooth operation of a door, or closing without an operator.
Educate us, Rectom! If you think you know more than me, or others in the industry, clue us in! I am always willing to learn something, old, or new! I don't mind sharing a little knowledge with others. If I am wrong, I'll admit it! Tell us these "true" measurements!
Have a nice day! WD
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 4:59pm #
To allow for an opener and still make a door work with 10 inches of headroom, you must cut the verticle down to 13 1/4 from the top of the door, which means thats 23 1/4 from the lowest point of obstruction. This is using 10 inch radius track, and you must use the HT2 with the bearing instead of HT1s, so the drums sit an inch higher and allows the door to clear without hitting, this is the old way of doing it, 25 yrs ago, now you can still cut down to 13 1/4 inches from the top of the door, but you can now lag the HT1s into the header instead of bolting it to the track. Theres alittle more you would have to do to allow for the lock, but this will give you the proper measurements.
Rectom
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 8:20pm #
Thank you Warren, I really appreciate your help!
I found a great place today with an excellent reputation. Again thank you for taking the time to help me. I felt much more confident talking with them armed with the information you gave me.
Posted 29 Sep 2009 at 11:21pm #
💡 You know, Rectom, I believe you may be a pretty nice guy after all! I don't understand your motive, being a rude dude, but I believe we can work in tandem, or hand in hand with others who don't mind helping others. I don't make a dime helping, but it doesn't cost me anything either! Kind of makes me feel good to know I helped someone, "thank you, Amy," for your testimonial! 🙂 WD
Posted 06 Oct 2009 at 9:45pm #
We really need president Obama to regulate this industry. My buddy just had 2 springs replaced in Mission Viejo, CA for $680. I am sure they were made of 316L surgical stainless steel for this price (yeah right).
Have all the loan brokers jumped into the garage door business or is it me?
Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 12:39am #
Hello, Jimbo. Sorry to contradict you, but I believe we are ALL about cost of doing business. If you are paying that much for springs, you must be using one of the "box" stores for your supplies. I can get Wayne Dalton torquemaster systems for a lot less money, and get that price for service and install. ($200+) Maybe you should look into buying a few of your most used springs from a spring supplier, usually your door distribution center, and eliminate a few trips to get the spring you need! By paying less than half of what you are paying, maybe you could charge less than you are, make more money, and word of mouth will find you more business! THAT will take care of the cost of doing business!
WD
Posted 07 Oct 2009 at 1:20am #
[quote comment="55662"]HOLD ON EVERYONE. All of these comments I've read and not 1 person has considered the cost to do business. Do you have any idea how much it costs to advertise? The cost for insurance and bonding? How long it takes to drive to the supplier to pick up parts? There are alot of factors involved in doing garage door repair. Its just not the spings cost $80-$100 per set, its all the other costs invoved in running a business. Think of it this way. You can go to the store and buy a 1lb t-bone steak for around $5-$6. But if you order that steak at a restuarant you will pay close to $20! Its just the cost of doing business!! I will say this though, you can get a quality spring job done for under $275. I charge $225/set any size. (tortion springs only) If you are quoted more KEEP LOOKING!!!![/quote]
What happened to Jimbo? I read something this guy wrote. I responded, and my response posted, and I don't see Jimbo's comment! Oh well! Maybe it still will! WD
Posted 18 Oct 2009 at 3:26pm #
😐 I live in S.E. Michigan and just paid $650 for three springs, 2 center bearings, and 10 rollers. The job was done on the weekend...before I had a chance to check this site out. Only one of the springs was broken but I figured the door was going on 25 years old and I don't want another one breaking at an inopportune time. Had both my vehicles not been in the garage I would have called around to get at least three quotes. As it is I likely paid more than I would have otherwise.
Posted 19 Oct 2009 at 11:23am #
Chuck, your question is? You answered your own guestion. Yes, you would have probably paid less had you called around. However, the price you paid was not too extreme for the work done.
I am assuming you have two doors, one a double, the other a single. Also assuming the broken spring was on the double door, and I would advise replacing both springs on it. Not knowing how much the smaller door was being used, I would have asked, and recomended replacing only if it was used as frequently as the larger door. Springs don't wear out remaining closed. It is the cycles that wear them out. Most are good for approximately 10,000 cycles. Doors that are used 5 to 10 times a day should be sprung with a high cycle spring, which will cost more, but will last 10 times as long. A bargain, in the long run! 😀 Warren
Posted 06 Nov 2009 at 6:15pm #
I didn't even know what a torsion spring was until today when ours broke. We have a double garage, one door, and I was quoted a price of $200 to replace both springs. After reading through the posts here, that seems reasonable. I appreciate the professionals who have taken the time to post; this site has been very helpful!
Posted 06 Nov 2009 at 11:38pm #
Another reason to leave spring changes to pro's! A customer called, he had purchased a Torquemaster system from a box store. He installed it, and the cable came over the top, rather than to the back side. Rather than save money, it wound up costing more to have me unwind the springs, remove the drums, and change ends with the drums and winders, then rewind the springs. It would have been quicker, and less expensive, had I done the complete job.
Posted 30 Nov 2009 at 7:16pm #
I had guy call and wanted a new door. I came out looked at the door from the outside and asked "Why do you want a new door?" He said the cables keep falling off 🙄 . We went inside the garage door and as soon as we stepped in a turned to him and said "How long ago did you install those springs? He asked "How can you tell I installed the springs? I told him "You have a left hand wound and a right hand wound and you have the backwards" 😳 . He wondered why the company didn't tell him how they went on. I told him "They assumed you knew what you were doing".
I have stopped selling springs to the public as has the 3 companies just to the north of me due to the liability. We live in a sue happy society and I personally will not take the chance even when it's due to their inability and/or stupidity. I use to several years ago. I would first ask questions like wire size or LH or RH. Some would say a spring is a spring, nope....No sell to you!
Sure we all know it's not rocket science but I don't want to see anyone get hurt either. I been called to jobs where the people have been hurt from trying to do it themselves. 1 spring is broken and they don't realize the other is still under tension and that's when they get hurt. 1 guy had broken wrist where he had wrench in his hand wrapped around the back of spring to loosen set screws. When spring let loose it about pulled his hand off his arm. Another one where the guy had put a big Phillips screwdriver in the winding cone and screwdriver hit him and broke his collarbone. He had put the screwdriver in the top hole thinking that the spring wound be going up instead of down :shock:. It just takes common sense and take your time, along with a basic understanding on how the torsion spring setup works. I guess you could say the science of a counterbalance system
but not rocket science.
Posted 01 Dec 2009 at 12:54am #
I have never sold springs over the counter! I'm sure there are a very few who have 7/16, or 1/2 inch winding bars in their tool box, or even know what to use to wind springs. Too many accidents occur because of screwdrivers being used to wind them, as well as accidents caused by lack of knowledge as to loaded springs after one breaks.
I also experienced a customer who planned to take the broken spring down, weld it back together, and avoid the cost of having a professional do it right. He had his hand all bandaged, and I asked what happened to his hand. He replied that he was a truck mechanic, owned trucks and did all the work on them, and assumed he could figure how to take the spring apart, fix it, and save some money. He took his air ratchet and took the nuts from the center brackett and was holding the spring with his other hand. He told me the set screws hit his hand more times than he could count, before he could pull his hand back. Broke nearly every bone in his hand. He wasn't even sure he was going to be able to use his fingers and thumb again because of the damage to his hand.
It's serious, folks! Let a proffessional do it! We understand the system you are trying to figure out, and if you overlook just one step, it can be very serious! In a way, it IS rocket science!
Posted 01 Dec 2009 at 5:23pm #
Have you guys heard of the guy who injured his wrist making eggs for his wife? He tried to flip the eggs in the pan like he saw on the food network shows.
Or how about the guy hurt his palm trying to staple through 30 sheets of paper?
You guys are a joke. Torsion spring repairs are not difficult. It is very difficult if you compare it to flipping eggs and stapling paper.
There's a right way and wrong way to do anything in life. The wrong way will sometimes cause injurie.
Stop trying to scare people. If they can't do the repairs; then they will call the "pros". Otherwise; anyone with common sense and an ounce of mechanical ability will be able to replace garage torsion springs. PERIOD!
Posted 26 Feb 2010 at 4:05pm #
Sorry but you simply don't know what your talking about. 20,000 people end up ever year in emergency rooms trying to fix their own Doors.
I not saying I've never seen anybody change their own springs. If everything is set up right and everything is normal, Yeah you might get by but to many doors are not this way and people get in over their heads really fast. We constantly see people with their hands disformed and cut off fingers. Yes, I seen eveyone from mechanics to doctors hurt. Let me try and get thru your thick head. There is a reason why almost every door company tells you not to change your own springs, Because we see so many people hurt and we don't want to see you get hurt or have you sue us for selling springs to you. I'll even drop my pants down on this trying to get thru to you kind of people. The people selling you the springs are not your friends. We buy our springs in bulk. What do they cost us? around $8.00 to $10.00 dollars a piece. The guys selling em direct make a lot of money doing it. The easiest money a door company can make is to sell you a set of springs at that price pat you on the back and make some quick money. Thank god most professionals pass up the easy buck and look out for your best interest. You people that think companies are charging too much have no clue to what it cost to run a business nor do you have any idea what a employee cost to keep on payroll. Our cost is about 62.50 an hour with truck. The average door company nationwide makes a 6 to 8 percent profit after expenses. not a fortune, we just do a lot of volume doing work for people with some common sense. Does this make any sense to you? Probably not!
Posted 01 Dec 2009 at 7:07pm #
Yes, I have heard of these guys! They're the ones who think they can change torsion springs! 😯
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 12:17am #
Well Joking,
You seem to have the same mentality as Rectom. Warren and I aren't trying to scare anyone, just making them aware of what could happen if they are thinking about what they are doing. Yes installing torsion springs are not difficult to install if you have done it or helped someone who knew what they are doing.
Another thing, Joking, We have nothing to gain. Just trying to inform and help people. Problem is, sometimes it's too late to realize they don't know what they are doing. "Oh crap Honey...Take me to the hospital I need stitches...I guess I didn't know what the hell I was doing...I should have listened to you".
We have seen it and just passing it along and let them decide. I have no problem with Jane & Joe Homeowner doing their own repairs to save money...Hell, We all do it. I'm just saying that sometimes you can end up paying a high price just to save a few bucks. I don't about you but sometimes it ain't worth it......PERIOD!!!
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 12:37am #
Whos talking about me................. 😆 Just to let everyone know, Im getting a check for 3.8 million dollars on Thursday. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhahahaha
Im serious
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 12:39am #
Also Kevin Harrington from the show "Shark Tank" is buying my product...............Theikey.com, I hold the patent on it. You will start seeing infomercials on it soooooooooooooon
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 1:55am #
Hello, Rectom. Congratulations on your good fortune! I'm curious though, as to what your invention is. I would like to know when I see the infomercial that it is yours!
Again, Congratulations. I have had a few ideas of my own, but when I figure what to do with them, I see someone has beat me to it! WD
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 12:33pm #
Go to http://www.theikey.com or http://www.communitysecurity.us, and read about it. Its a remote control which is secure, like a keypad. It illininates thieves from gaining access through the garage door remote. You must punch in a code upon each entry and allows access to your home from only you, since only you know the code. If you would like to buy some and become a dealer let me know.
Posted 02 Dec 2009 at 9:35pm #
Hello, Rectom. I believe this to be an inovative idea. I have been using Lift Masters keyless entry, in the same manor, for years, for appartment managers access to complex garages. However, they are too large to pocket or purse them! I'm surprised one of the mfg'rs havent already done this. WD
Posted 03 Dec 2009 at 1:33am #
Everyone should start offering these to your customers, they are universal and high end looking. Everytime I have shown them to customers and explained the safety features with preventitive break ins, and peace of mind, It makes an easy sale. I sell them with one remote and the reciever and plug in transformer for 249.00 installed and they usually buy another remote for 59.00, so I get 308.00 with 2 remotes, everytime. They come in black or silver and they are so cool. Let me know if you want dealer pricing. I sell the start up package for about 50 bucks when you buy as a dealer.
Posted 22 Dec 2009 at 4:29pm #
I just paid $225.00 to have both springs replaced, it took the repair person about 45 minutes. I figured that the springs were marked up 100% over what I could have purchased them over the internet. That is the price one pays for getting old, as I can remember when I could replace them myself. I will have to say that the technician did show up on time, imagine that. 😳
Posted 06 Jan 2010 at 2:22pm #
anyone know a good repair person for garage door that will not cost arm and a leg seddupere[at]yahoo.com
Posted 06 Jan 2010 at 8:10pm #
scott, where are you located? What state and city?
Posted 06 Jan 2010 at 10:30pm #
Scott, I have no idea where you are located, but you can always call me! Reasonable rates, plus travel time! Just kidding.
My advice to you would be to call two or three companies and compare prices. Just remember, lowest price doesn't always spell "Good Deal." Check the BBB. See if there are any complaints against them.
WD
Posted 06 Jan 2010 at 10:53pm #
I also have a word for "HBD"
You also could call a couple of other companies before settling on one to do the work, then complaining about the cost of the job! Have you ever done this type of work? Do you, or have you ever had proper tools and knowledge to complete a spring change project? Do you know how to gauge spring wire, diameter, and length, or determine left or right wound spring? If you answer "No" to any of these questions, you may have had problems doing this job yourself, reguardless of your age!
Depending on where you live, $225 could be a little high, or an extremely good deal! If it was a weekend, or after hours, I would say you got an extremely good deal, no matter where you live!
I'm 73 years old and still do this for a living. I make a lot of people happy, including myself! Age has nothing to do with it. No, I don't have to do this, but you can't fish all the time! WD
Posted 06 Jan 2010 at 11:08pm #
Hey, Rectom! I thought you were getting $3.8 mill! I figured you would be in tahiti, sipping cool marguaritas and checking out bikini's by now!
I've thought about your transmitter deal, and figure it may be a kind of hard sell in my arena. With rolling code openers, and so easy to delete all memory and program new remotes, it seems no one, including myself, wants to key in a password while driving. It is really a rare case that a remote is stolen, or even a car, with the remote, registration, and all, and had their home ransaked before they got home. Good luck, anyway! WD
Posted 10 Jan 2010 at 9:11pm #
Warren, I'm with you. $3.8 mill....I sure wouldn't be thinking about frigging garage doors anymore. Well, unless the 1 one my island home broke then I would pay someone to come fix it while I sat on my butt sipping a tall drink...You know..The one's with a little umbrella in it. Ahhhh, Nice to dream about!
Posted 10 Jan 2010 at 10:42pm #
4.8 sorry I was wrong by a million. It should be all done by the end of this week, Im on the stand tomorrow all day.
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 12:33am #
Hey, Rectom! Maybe you could make another mistake, and drop the .8 on me! LOL
Good for you. I'm happy for you! WD
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 10:08pm #
What do you mean by mistake? Im talking to Warren
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 10:25pm #
Well, Rectom, you said you were wrong by a mill! I figured being wrong is the same as a mistake. At that point, what significance is .8? LOL, WD Have a good one!
Posted 11 Jan 2010 at 10:33pm #
Seriously, Rectom, I have a really good idea for a safety feature. It has nothing to do with garage doors, but with children. I don't have the money to make it work. It COULD make us both a bunch of money, and the investment wouldn't be that great. Interested? Let me know and we'll talk. WD
Posted 12 Jan 2010 at 12:35am #
let me know what it is at amartin504@aol.com, I have a chinese connection that knows everyone in China.
Posted 07 Feb 2010 at 5:05pm #
Just replaced my broken torsion spring today after some research. Was 1 spring for a 9x7 door. Sized the spring at:
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/springs/torsion-spring-prices.php?act=list&sort=lift&id=B&height=7
Read a ton of instructions on the web, found this site to be most useful:
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/replace-garage-door-torsion-springs.php
Note, there are multiple spring options for a particular door.
Went to Menards, bought the spring for $40, 1/2" x 36" steel bar(cut in half)and was on my way. They also had an easy spring guide based on door weight and size. Took about 45 min by myself. Remember to research how many turns you need to tighten based on door height, I needed 7.5 full turns, so that was 30 turns.
Regarding the DIY person and safety aspect of this job, anyone with mechanical aptitude can complete this job safely. Basically, anticipate that the spring could let loose at any point while you wind it. So naturally, you would keep your face/body away from the direction of the bars if they let loose, you wouldn't put your hands on the spring, etc. you get the point. Keep that in mind and you will be fine.
Posted 08 Feb 2010 at 12:20pm #
Aric;
Hooray for you. You accomplished this feat without getting dissabled. I'm happy for you!. Did you check for loose or missing bolts or nuts? How about wear on rollers? If the bottom rollers need replacing do you know how to do that? Remember, the cable attaches there, and has a lot of hurt installed in it! There are other things a pro just instinctivly looks for. One thing Dan reccomends is a quarter inch expansion of each spring. It really isn't necessary, but a little don't hurt. Remember, as the door lifts, the gap increasses between the coils. Another, put a vicegrip on the shaft to keep tension on the cables. set it so the cables won't unwind as you tighten the first spring. Leave it there until you test-lift the door. It will prevent the door from raising more than 3 or 4 inches if the springs are too tight. (or too strong) When servicing the door, DON'T PUT 40 WEIGHT OIL ON SPRINGS OR TRACK!!! It does nothing but make a mess, and dirt seems to gather where there is grease or oil! There is very little friction on the springs, as the coils only have pressure against each other when the door is completely closed. Besides, motoroil gets gummy when exposed to dust or dirt. That creates MORE drag on the system. Use ONLY, a light weight spray lube, and only on rollers, and bearings. I DO agree, don't use wd40. It is a water displacement, and what oil it may have in it, dries up and the bearings still need lube!
If your watch broke, would you attempt the repair? True, the watch won't hurt you, but a pro may be the best bet to save you time, AND save you money! The pro has a trained eye to spot trouble areas.
Posted 11 Feb 2010 at 2:31am #
Warren,
Thank you for the professionalism you bring to this blog. You've expressed my thoughts on many occasions.
I'll post a few explanations regarding your comments above and we can let the consumers make their own decisions.
First, replacing garage door springs is dangerous. I don't hide that fact. When customers write us to tell us how easy it was using our instructions referenced above, I congratulate them. And I congratulate you as well, Aric.
Second, we stretch the spring after winding it because a small percentage of these springs will bind down the road. End bearing plates bend and flag brackets shift because one spring often pulls harder horizontally than the other. This can prevent the door from closing completely.
Third is the oil. It's not the thickness of the oil, but the amount, that makes the mess. Thicker oil runs less and stays on the parts longer. It's a benefit to the customer and saves the DIY-er work in the future. I don't remember ever seeing a residential door having extra drag because of the oil. I may have seen it on farm barn doors and carpenter shop doors, but oily hardware is still better than worn hardware, and oily, dusty springs still function better than dry, dusty springs. Dry springs also often trigger the opener force sensor and stop the door as it is opening.
Fourth, I oil every type of torsion spring. The traditional oil-tempered springs rust and stick; dry galvanized springs make horrible clanging noises; coated springs will often break prematurely if not oiled. Just as scoring glass will break it, rust forming in a slight chip in the coating will snap a spring. I've seen it in homes; I saw it particularly in one highly corrosive plating company in which a high cycle coated spring broke in just a few months. The rusty oil-tempered spring before that lasted many years and the well-greased, non-coated spring after that lasted many years.
Warren, you impress me as being as honest as the day is long, but not all professionals are honest, and not all have the customer's best interests at heart. There's also no guarantee the customer will be any happier with a professional's work than if he had repaired the door himself. In fact, many homeowners have higher standards and expectations than the technicians servicing their doors. And many simply prefer the deep satisfaction of fixing things themselves, especially when they can save substantial dollars in the process.
Posted 19 Feb 2010 at 12:52pm #
To all who read this blog, Dan is a professional. I, also, am a professional. We don't all see eye to eye on all circumstances, but most of us have the same objective. To do the best job possible, and to satisfy our customers. We make our living by that code. It brings us new customers by recomendation, as well as repeat business from satisfied customers.
About the grease, or heavy oil. I object to it because it makes such a mess when the door needs attention down the road. As for scoring glass to break it, the score is only there to guide the break.To make it break where you want it to break. It still takes some kind of force to cause the actual break. Without the score, glass will still break with the same force, only you have no control where the break will go. As for springs, I don't know how to actually test to see if a spring will break in a pit. I examined several of the springs I have replaced. Some had pits, most didn't. None had breaks through pits.
Like concrete, or any other object, steel will break at its weakest point. In springs, that point is caused by metal fatigue. The wire in springs bend as they wind and unwind. Same as bending a wire, or pop can. You just don't notice it because it seems such a small amount. That is why it takes 10,000 cycles or more to break it. No amount of oil will prevent that.
All I can say, if you want to oil your springs, do it! If you don't, it's ok!
Posted 26 Feb 2010 at 10:42am #
Stumbled upon this site, entertaining if nothing else. Don't claim to have read all the posts but have a good feel for what's going on. I've owned a garage door repair business for over 30 years and feel I have done well for myself. Basically it comes down to where you're located and if you know how to run a business or not. My company charges around $300 for a double spring change. If we were located in a major city with a lot of competion we'd probably be in the $500-700 range. Most good customers (the one's you want) will call one of the bigger ads. That costs a lot of money and you need to charge accordingly to cover costs. No one should try making a living off the bottom feeders (they call everyone looking for the lowest price). Some people have no idea on how to run a business and price low to get these customers. Simply put they are being used and live in their own Hell. They really need to sit down and go line by line looking at costs. You "can not" make a descent living at those rates. They look at the guys charging a $1000 and think they are complete crooks. When in fact they are really the problem and are the ones that cause that kind of business model. You do what you do to make a descent living. Don't claim to have all the answers but I do know for sure the low ballers are the real trouble makers in the industry. They need to get a clue and quit making things hard on everyone else. In closing some of you guys need to quit giving it away. If you charge more you can save some money put your kids in school and maybe they won't make the same mistakes you have. Didn't use spell check or proof read so sorry for the mistakes but I have a Yacht to get ready to put in the water and have to go.
Posted 27 Feb 2010 at 5:06pm #
Mr. Lehman, You remind me of the old lady I saw in Salt Lake City, in August of 1954. She was selling pencils at the bus station late afternoon. She looked like she would starve to death without procedes from her pencil sales. Some gentlemen would pay 2 or more times what she was asking for the pencils, and tell her they didn't really need the pencil, and to just keep them. I was about to board my bus when a limo pulled up. The chauffer got out, took the ragged jacket off her and draped her with a fur stole, helped her into the limo, and drove off.
It has been my experience that most wealthy people are more bargain hunters than the "bottom" feeders. The only difference is that the more wealthy will treat themselves with doors and assessories that the common folk can't afford. A status symbal, but they still shop for the "best price!"
Are you the little old lady in the bus station?
One more thing, I probably catch as many fish from my 28 ft. boat as you do from your "yacth!" My bills are paid, and my kids went to college. I sleep well at night, and people still ask me if I will continue to service them, as customers!
Posted 27 Feb 2010 at 7:00pm #
Just wait till the contractors license board and the fucking State gets a hold of you. The California State Contractors License Board is a fucking scum house. They prey on all contractors just beware. They claim they are protecting the consumer, and then cite you and take all your money. Better take what Im saying seriously, I know someone they just seized 2 helicopters and 3.2 million dollars for and they are posting it everywhere pretending they did it to repay consumers, what a crock of shit, they keep all the money, dont let that scum bag mother fucker Steve Sands ruin your life. He is the biggest pussy coward ever. Trust me the whole State is full of corruption and people getting paid off, like judges and lawyers.. You better have plan B ready, because they are fucking with everyone. Im glad Im out of this shitty racket. Just go to there website and see for yourself, they are even running commercial on the radio now to make consumers aware, they have fucked up everyones livelihood. Vote for Ron Paul, and Meg Whitman and get rid of these ugly mother fuckers, evern Arnold is a scumbag.
Posted 20 Mar 2010 at 10:39pm #
Mr Lehman, I continue to think about things you said in your post. For one thing, you don't have to charge more to pay for the large ads. If the ad is doing what it is supposed to be doing, you need to have enough employees to handle the flow of traffic. The profits are in the volume. You get better prices from suppliers because of volume. They don't charge you more because of their large ads! If they did, you would change suppliers! They actually reward you for a larger volume. We all get this advantage. Amount of volume determins multiplier.
I do agree that some areas can get more for their service (labor) than other areas. Your skill and expertise has to be a factor in establishing your fee's. An electrician will make more in Los Angeles than in Tim buc tu, but the supplies will cost the same. However, I don't believe you should make over $500 an hour replacing garage door springs. By the same token, I believe the "bottom feeders" are the people charging $40 to $60 labor for installing a garage door opener, including about 15 mile round trip. I believe these people should just quit before they go broke, and destroy the market for everyone else! (I know of a couple doing this)
My message to you is, when your car or truck breaks down, PLEASE, take it to the most expensive place you can find, because you know they need your business to pay for their huge tv ads! Then offer them more so you can be assured they will still be there when you need them again!
Posted 20 Mar 2010 at 10:50pm #
I have a message for Inner Core, also!
First off, I suppose the language is a reflection of your education? Most people can find several words to use in place of those you chose. Secondly, I don't have a clue how many people on this blog are in California, but I assume at least one person is! I really don't think this is a forum to post your political agenda, beliefs, or dissagreements. I can say for certainty though, I'm glad you don't represent my state!
Posted 12 Apr 2010 at 11:53am #
Several weeks ago I inadvertently closed my garage door on an open cabinet door. The auto reverse feature worked properly so there was no damage to the cabinet door. The sudden motion of the garage door resulted in a dislodged lift cable.
I perused the situation and decided I needed my garage door fully operational ASAP. I called a repairman listed in the Yellow Pages and he showed up in half an hour. In 15 minutes he was finished and taking my American Express information. No parts were required and the service call cost $125. My wife and I are both accountants. We understand fully the costs of doing business. However, it did dawn on me that this garage repairman was charging about 25% more than my board certified cardiologist gets from my insurance company for an office visit.
I am very mechanically inclined and can afford to buy the best tools for the job. I enjoy fixing things around my house. It gives me a sense of accomplishment and makes my wife think I'm a hero. I don't mind spending money on outside help. My landscaper is on a $500 per month retainer. I have a housekeeper who cleans up after me when I cook for a dinner party. I can afford to not care about the price of a purchase, but the value received.
I realized that if I waited for a torsion spring to break, I would be at the mercy of a repairman. He probably would not have the correct springs on his truck. He probably would not have the best hardware for the job.
I live in South Florida and have a Clopay wind rated door. It is very heavy (424 lbs.) and uses springs that cannot be readily found. I called Clopay, spoke to one of their engineers, and got all of the relevant specifications for my door. I was told that the original springs were rated for 10K cycles. I did the math and realized that my springs could fail in the next year.
I did some Internet research to determine the variables that affect spring life. I spoke to several vendors, both Internet and brick and mortar, and determined that Mike Foster (see earlier post) was the guy who made the most sense and had very competitive pricing. He ran my door's specifications through a spring engineering software program and designed a four spring configuration with a 100K cycle life. I'm having the springs custom cut and galvanized (I like shiny) and I ordered new lift cables and 100k cycle plastic rollers with sealed bearings.
All in, this will cost me about $440. My next door neighbor is a general contractor. He'll come over with a laser level (to make sure the torsion shaft lines up perfectly with the bearing brackets). We'll spend about 2 hours installing the new springs, bracket plates, brackets, rollers, and cables. Then we'll both go to the showers and later I'll grill him and his wife a porterhouse with my fabled lobster mashed potatoes and enjoy a few good bottles of wine. I'll have some fun and won't have to think about my garage door for another 20 years.
Here's the point! If you wait for a spring to fail, you're not going to get the best deal. When you enter a negotiation out of necessity and/or desperation, you will lose. Do you wait for your engine to seize before you do an oil change? Do you wait for a blowout before you replace worn tires? Be proactive! Replace the springs before they break. That is how you get the best value for your money.
Do you do the job yourself? I know me, I don't know you. I am confident in my mechanical and analytical skills and experience. Most importantly, I know my limitations and difference between understanding the job and having the technique to complete it successfully. That being said, if you're truly a competent DIYer, this is a piece of cake.
Posted 13 Apr 2010 at 10:50pm #
Steve, first, congratulations on your door decision! Although, most service trucks in any given area, will have springs, rollers, and bearings, that will be correct for the popular doors in that area. They also use professional quality bearing plates, or what ever part they replace, not Home Depo, or Lowe's. You see, first off, we don't want to come back for a freebie! Inferior parts would almost guarantee it! (I don't even know where to find inferior parts!) I don't understand the purpose of a "lazer level." First, an experienced installer will make sure the bottom section, or the door, is level. Then measure from the top of the door to the top of the verticle track, and adjust to make them both the same. From there, everything will automaticly line up, except the center anchor brackett. Just measure from the tube to the header at the head brackett and center bracket, and it can't get more perfect! Oh yes, you DO need to keep the verticles plumb, or a little wider at the top than bottom. You wanted galvanized springs. That's ok, but most service people won't have them in stock, other than Martin Door product dealers. Any of us can sell you a higher cycle springs by going longer and larger, with a higher number of turns, rated for a specific number of turns (IPPT). We don't need an engineer to tell us that. You see, we learn the door like you learn numbers, or your cardiologist learns hearts. The only diffefence is that we don't have a flow of traffic coming into our office by appointment. We have to drive from one appointment to the next, not just into the next room! So, we have to make up this "down" time by charging a little more. Areas where services are higher warant higher service prices.
I have one thing more to say. The door suddenly changing directions didn't have anything to do with the cable coming off the drum! There would be enough tension on the cables to prevent that. What happened was one side stopped, the other continued until the down pressure caused it to reverse, and that caused slack on the side that the cabinet stopped the door. I would bet that was the side the cable came off! Good luck on your door re-model!
Posted 16 Apr 2010 at 2:53am #
Installing garage door springs can be a dangerous project if you dont:
1. Know what your doing and have proper training. a customer of mine a garage door dealer had a friend who tried to replace his torsion springs and decided he needed to remove the spring anchor first while there was still tension of the garage door springs... needless to say he was unpleasantly surprised when the loose spring anchor starting chopping at his hand. he lived of course, but I'm sure he wished he hadn't tried to do what he did.
Another customer i know went to a job to repair a thrown cable on an eldery woman's garage door. while the garage door was cocked to one side she decided that all she needed to do was remove the bottom bracket on the stuck side to lower the garage door and it would close...
We'll i don't know if it closed or not but when she finally beat the bottom bracket of the door she got something she didn't expect. a bottom bracket in her face and a good amount of lost blood.
i could go on and on about professional doing garage door repair or onl qualified people working on garage doors for the simple fact that knowing how to change spark plugs doesn't make you a mechanic nor does owning a hammer of watching a guy in a video build a house make you a carpenter.
If your going to attempt any garage door repair you should have a strong working knowledge of garage doors and garage door safety.
If you don't and you run into a problem, then what do you do? if you install some springs but can get the door to balance, or you run into a problem that wasn't covered on the youtube.com video. whose safety are you putting at risk.
If you insist on installing your own garage door springs be safe know what to do if you run into problems. do your research. There are several sites on the web site for Garage Door Parts.
Unless you have a 20 x 7 garage door don't get suckered by offers of lifetime springs, hire a reputable garage door company to do the work for you, and learn as much as you can when you do hire someone so you don't get burned.
Any job can be dangerous, don't assume it's as easy as it looks.
Posted 19 Apr 2010 at 8:05am #
Thank you Warren for your congratulations and approval. I think however, that you missed my point. Regarding the charges for a service call, I subsequently called three other companies in my area, described the problem, and received three minimum service call rates that were $40 to $60 lower than the $125 I paid.
My point was that if you wait until something that you rely upon (and usually take for granted) becomes inoperational, the sense of urgency to render that something operational again, often precludes the opportunity to investigate adequately to secure the best outcome.
I'm sure that you are a reputable and knowledgeable businessman. There are also, I'm certain, members of your industry (and other industries) who are not and are in fact, quite unscrupulous. Yes Warren, there are repairman who will sell you springs that are not properly matched for your door because that is what they have on their truck. And no Warren you don't have to be an engineer to select the proper spring, but you do have to be an engineer to design the software or table that gives you the lift and longevity characteristics of that spring.
All that I am saying is that at some point in time, your garage door will need repair. If you do not take the time to understand the potential problems you may encounter, whether you acquire the knowledge and resources to fix those problems yourself, or find a reputable repairman before the problem arises, you run the risk of being at a disadvantage when the foreseeable problem becomes reality.
And yes Warren, you are absolutely correct about my cable problem. I should have been more precise in my language. When I use the term "sudden motion" I should have said "sudden unbalanced motion" (i.e. one side of the door continued its downward motion, while the other side was abruptly interrupted).
Posted 20 Apr 2010 at 3:07am #
Steve, apparently you thought I wasn't aware that you were placing yourself, with your display of intelligence, power of problem solving, and of course, self proclaimed cullinary mastery and party master, on a level above us common folk trying to make a living repairing garage doors!
I agree that there are unscrupulous people out there, not only in my trade, Steve, but yours as well. The trouble is that you always hear of them, rather than those of us who really do our best, and hope our customers will recommend us to friends, and call us back with any other problems they may have. I might add, Steve, I believe the good guys really out number the bad!
Steve those of us who do spring replacement usually specialize in that, as well as many other aspects of the industry. If we don't have the exact replacement, we use other springs that will work. We have charts that tell us what size wire to use and length of the wound spring to give us the inch pounds per turn (IPPT) to replace the original spring, and most of us will replace with one of a larger size wire, and more coils to give us a spring that will actually increase the life of the spring with the same IPPT's, and we will recommend replacing both springs rather than one, at a price savings. We certainly don't need to call the manufacture of any door to get the engineering for their springs. Steve, our charts tell us all we need to know, including 100,000 cycle springs.
It really would be nice if people would call us and say, "my springs have cycled nearly 10,000 times. I think you should come change them before one breaks!" In my 30 years plus, no one has ever done this! 99% of the people will wait until a roller wears out or a spring breaks before they will even think about their garage door. They will just assume it will work forever, and be upset because it broke when they least expected it. That's why most of us check cables, rollers, drums, and bearings, when we are called out for any repair on a garage door, and we lube everything before we leave the job. (tightening loose or replacing missing bolts, nuts, and screws is also included. Most DIY'ers won't do these tasks, only address what is broken. That's why I don't recommend these practices.
There aren't many people like yourself who would even think about rebuilding their garage door if it is still operative.
Upon closing, I will not divulge my social acvtivities, or my dietetic choices, only that they may or may not be the same as some who read this!
Posted 20 Apr 2010 at 7:31am #
Hi Warren,
I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was an elitist snob. Actually, I probably am a snob. But before you judge me, perhaps you should understand my concept of snobbery. Over the years I have been placed in countless situations where I have had to evaluate the efforts and performance of individuals engaged in varied lines of work. At the risk of oversimplification, my experience has revealed two general types of people. The first type does their job with minimal attention to detail and attempts to get by with the least that is expected of them. The second type relentlessy tries to do the best job possible. They hone their skills, take great pride in what they do, and always try to exceed expectations. Sadly, the first type, all too often, thinks they fall into the second type.
Unfortunately, I have found that the former is more prevalent. Since there are more of these people, I consider them to be the "common folk". I have to admit I prefer the latter type. So, I would rather hang with a trim carpenter who is always looking to make a better joint than a corporate attorney who is looking for the 30 hour day so he can increase his client billing.
If you're one of the latter type, we would probably get along just fine. I might even invite you over for one of my superior meals.
Posted 27 Apr 2010 at 2:15am #
Oh my gosh! I feel as if I was just robbed by Sears after having read these posts. I just payed 422.71 to Sears for repairing my garage door without having shopped around or done any research first. Here is a summary of my what I was just billed... $225.50 for one 250x2x30 spring.... $45.00 for two #3 hinges.... $45.00 for 2 #1 hinges.... and $75.00 for labor.... plus $32.21 tax. I think I was just scammed out of a couple of hundred dollars.
Posted 28 Apr 2010 at 10:22am #
Sears probably contracted the service work out to another company (they do here in our area) Let people at Sears know your feeling about the service you received...they are ultimately responsible for the Sears name, and would not be appreciative of a contractor using their name to sell overpriced repair work. At least the individual indicated the spring size...that enables you to call around locally to gauge the prices in your area.
Posted 27 Apr 2010 at 2:26am #
One quick question for you professionals out there... does a spring only need to be replaced when it is broken? The Sears service man told me I HAD to replaced mine even though it was not broken.
Posted 28 Apr 2010 at 10:14am #
The service person should have explained why you "HAD" to. You don't have to do anything! He should be working FOR you, not telling you what to do! The service person should be looking out for your interests and should demonstrate that by providing a quick educational explanation for any action or part he was recommending. Was the spring the wrong size for the door (not pulling the weight it needs to for the distance it was traveling)? Was it too strong for the door? (that scenario can damage a door permanently) Was the spring prematurely fatigued or had it been overwound in an attempt to compensate for it being the wrong spring to start with? Was it the unbroken half of a two-spring counterbalance? (the unbroken half will statistically break in a few weeks or months after the first one goes) Those are a few reasons that it may be prudent to replace a spring that is not actually broken. If you have a service agreement that covers emergency service at no cost or a low cost or a similar arrangement, the fine print of the agreement may require changing both springs when one breaks to keep the service or warranty valid.
Posted 28 Apr 2010 at 7:54pm #
Isaac, I truly believe Sears, or, the contractor Sears sent to repair your door, gaffed you, and I would report them to Sears! You were charged about 500% markup on parts, plus, in my opinion, an excessive price for one spring! However, when it comes to replacing springs, there is no law that says you have to replace EITHER spring! To make it work, you must replace at least one! Unless you want to pay this price again, you SHOULD replace both of them at the same time, as they have both cycled the same number of times. They are only good for around 10,000 cycles, plus or minus, ? Would you take your car to a shop and tell them to only replace the brake that is metal to metal? Would you like to go back next week to fix the next one, etc, etc? I, as well as every one I know, recomends replacing both springs at the same time. It will save you a service call, and the price you pay for service where you live, it would be much cheaper!
Posted 29 Apr 2010 at 6:21pm #
To Isaac,
I saw this post and I wanted to reach out to you regarding the service on your garage door opener. We certainly do not want to overcharge our customers for service. In fact we strive to keep the cost of the service to only what is necessary to fix it. It is against our policy to overcharge customers on service. This being said, we certainly want to make sure you were not charged for anything that was not necessary and we would like to discuss this with you to be sure. My name is Brian and I’m part of the Sears Cares Escalations team and we want to be sure you were not overcharged. At your convenience, please contact my office via email at searscares@searshc.com so we can help. In the email, please provide a contact phone number and the phone number the garage door opener was purchased under (if different than the contact phone number) and we will call you directly. Also, in your email, please provide the screen name (Isaac) used to post on this site, for reference to your issue, and we do look forward to talking to you soon.
Thank you,
Brian J.
Senior Case Manager
Posted 29 Apr 2010 at 6:26pm #
Correction, I meant to refer to the garage door, not the opener.
Brian
Posted 30 Apr 2010 at 1:09pm #
from Houston, TX. Over the phone, I asked for a price for 2 torsion springs. I was told $75-$110 for the springs and $89 for labor. I didn't check around because that matched prices I had seen on this blog, and the company had no complaints with the BBB. I scheduled an appointment. When the guys came out he said it was $97 per spring. I had both done for a total of $318. I don't feel ripped off, but that seems like quite an upcharge on the springs. I should have checked around and clarified the price was for 2 springs.
Posted 01 May 2010 at 6:21pm #
Amy, I don't understand why you don't feel ripped off! You could go to a website posted on this blog and find springs listed for about $9.00 (each) plus shipping. Personally, I believe everyone should enjoy a profit for handling a product, but you paid about 1000% markup, plus labor @ $89. The fact is, this guy can buy springs for about the same price as advertised on this blog, plus or minus a couple of bucks. ($9.00 X 1000% = $90.00 per spring! I believe I would ruin their record with a complaint! Actually, their are laws in affect against "gouging!"
Now, had you been told an exact price before work started, you should have held them to it!
In MY area, we are fighting some new companies that started in the business because work has been slow and they were laid off. I guess they figured the work was there, their boss just couldn't find it! Now, in order to find jobs, they are doing double spring replacement for $120 - $130, parts and labor! 16X7 door installs for under $100.00 ---- Maybe I'll move to Texas!
Posted 19 May 2010 at 11:22pm #
Thank you for your encouragement, Warren! I wrote a letter to the company that charged me $318 to replace 2 torsion springs. I cited this website and 2 quotes I later got from Houston area companies ($139 and $185 + tax). I asked for (AND GOT!) $100 back, which made the job $218 (which is what I thought he had quoted me when he said $75 -$110 for the springs + $89 for labor.)
What I learned from this experience (and Brian's post of $385 in Houston - thank you!) is that there is quite a range of prices and it pays to get quotes.
A friend recommended that I have companies email me a quote in PDF format (that can't be altered) so that we're clear on the charges beforehand.
Posted 14 May 2010 at 11:41am #
I found this post via Google, and found the comments informative (although sometimes derogatory) and it helped me through my garage door issue. FYI, in answer to the original question, I had both springs replaced on a 2 car garage and it cost $385 in Houston, tx.
Posted 20 May 2010 at 12:52am #
Brian M,
It amazes me that people can charge that much for 10,000 cycle springs, and find customers that will pay it! People call me and ask what I charge, and when I tell them $145 for two springs, and why we need to replace both, That I completely service their door and opener, replace missing nuts, bolts, or tighten any loose hardware, as well as check for worn cables or other fatigued hardware, and they tell me they are going to make a couple more calls. They don't call back! Brian, you paid $240 more than I try to get, and Amy, from Houston, paid less than you did.
If I were a younger man, I believe I would consider moving to Texas, or another more lucrative area. Maybe I could get the word out to the new starting and floundering fledgling companies and get them to move to Texas, and maybe us longtime companies would have a better chance of surviving!
Posted 20 May 2010 at 9:39am #
Exactly what Brian M. just says is true,"surviving". Thats why he needs to charge more. He has not concidered any of his overhead. He is a perfect example of a horrible business man that should definetly NOT be in the garage door business. Just another one that is their to make it hard on everyone else trying to make money doing this. I know Warren goint to comment and sound like a hero and say if you give a fair price and charge accordingly that you will get enough business to keep you busy and make an honest living. Well that is totally false, you cant make anything charging those type of prices, theres so much overhead, and then after all is said and done consider PROFIT. I know you people here will think Im lying here but I get almost 800 for 2 springs and 500 for one. I leave it up to the customer to decide if they want the savings on 2 springs, either way Im making money to do it.. I also get 1300 for openers. My doors start at 2500 and go up from there. If they dont want to pay I dont want to do. I live a good life in a great neighborhood, and drive nice cars and thats all I want. You people are giving away all your profit because your scared to charge. Its all a numbers game and NOT what you do. Just change the numbers and live good. Dont worry about what everyone else and what they are charging or if you will lose out on a job or two, who cares, as long as your busy with high prices you will make money. I had more complaints when I used to charge 155 for 2 springs then ever before. In fact I never get any complaints, most customers just feel thats what it cost and dont get all into it. Compare yourself to a mechanic, they charge way more for little things, and you have to bring the car to them and they do it at their own convienence. If they came to you they would even charge more, and mechanics are a dime a dozen. Garage doors are a specialty trade and not alot of people understand them, even if you do, why give away the secrets and make it sound easy to customers. The fact of the matter is every profession just about inflates what they actually do, and most things everyone can do, but they dont build a web site and brag it to the customers here.
Posted 21 May 2010 at 11:21pm #
HaHaHaHa,
I don't think of myself as a "hero." I just feel fair is fair! I have fair prices, pay my bills, and my profits, or, "take home pay" is 3 to 6 times what people on the clock make, and I usually have short days. I have the same expenses as you have, advertising, etc, except you may have a crew to do your work, in which you probably screw them with minimum wage because of expensive employee expenses, like matching ss taxes, workmens comp, medicare, liability ins, service truck expenses, etc etc---
I may have an emergency service, which the customer already knows is going to cost more than if he could wait till morning. I drive a nice car, "Cad," Have a motorhome, boat, nice home, and I don't have to "gouge" my customers to make a living. I also don't have payments on my possessions!
What drives you is greed! You could lower your prices and do a good job, and you could probably make MORE money because you would get more work! People would think more of you, too!
To be honest with you, I DO think you are exagerating what you get for your springs and door and opener installs!
I haven't kept up on sears activities, but I used to install for them. Doors they had sold would be shipped to me, and I would schedual and install them. Sears could get higher prices than I could because they financed them. Amazing what people will pay when they have the need, but no money, and a good sears credit card! Now, Sears has garage door companies that do service work, as well as new installs. Even they don't get the prices you claim!
Posted 22 May 2010 at 12:34am #
For the last 6 years I have been getting 789.00 for 2 springs, and 495.00 for 1. I always charge 1295.00 for openers, or i just wont do them. I do them alot too. Compared to a water heater, I would rather install a water heater and they charge over 1500.00 and a water heater cost only alittle more. Why would I do a similar job in a dirty garage for any less. Im also raising my prices soon, Im sick of doing them for my prices, I feel they should be more. Im not bragging here either, I swear to you that I get these prices all the time, and not just now and then. I rarely get turned down only people calling around in which 90% of them wont hire you anyway even if I were 100 dollars for an opener, and 50 dollars for a spring change. You will only regret it when your alittle older and because you didnt allow for your retirement you wont be able to retire and all your bones are going to be aching and you wont even be able to go up a ladder. Dont say you werent warned.
Posted 22 May 2010 at 12:58am #
HaHaHaHa
I am already a little older. I will be 74 in August, and I love what I do. I don't have to do garage doors, or anything else, but I have no desire to sit around getting old! I enjoy meeting people, and sometimes I make someones day by selling an old opener I have rebuilt for $75, or $100. It meands some poor soul can continue to use an automatic door! Makes MY day, too!
I have a friend, a younger man, who is in the business too. Sometimes he hires me to help him when he has a couple of large doors and commercial openers to install. Works out well for both of us!
I have reached retirement age, and provided for retirement, without gouging my customers, and I can walk down the street, or go in a store and see people I have worked for, and they all greet me me with respect and ask if they can still call me if they have garage door problems. I hope you can say the same when you get "older!" For that matter, NOW!
Posted 24 May 2010 at 2:50pm #
Patriot Garage Doors in Sacramento. Learn from my experience since I already paid these guys too much for what should have been a simple fix! The issue: the rollers on the garage door came off the track and caused the track to bend. Called patriot garage doors and I had a technician at my home within the hour (kudos!). First he said he needed to replace the tracks, but later realized that he could actually straighten them out, however, he informed me he needed to replace the torsion spring ($300) and center-bearing ($95), and I should also replace the lifter cables ($99), and rollers ($99), plus labor ($75). All parts came with a lifetime warranty. Without giving it much thought and because he seemed like a HONEST hard working fellow, I agreed. After checking around with other companies I am being told this was a no more than $300 job since the price I paid for parts was outrageous. I paid over $700. I will not use them again. They also go by only Patriot Garage Doors
Posted 28 May 2010 at 11:16am #
See its not just me, but I dont make up things like the Patriot guy just to sell you something. You probably didnt need a spring, you probably didnt need cables, and you definetly didnt need a center bearing. I have done this for 30 yrs. and NEVER change a spring center bearing. I think this guy really did just rack up a fake bill. I dont do that. I just charge what I charge and only if something is damaged or broken. I dont lie what I do and I do a great job. God I hope knowone ask me if they could still call me for garage door problems when I get older. The guy who got screwed by Patriot should call the State Contractors License Board and tell them that he gouged you for unneeded work on your door.
Posted 29 May 2010 at 1:27am #
Carlo D'
From what you described, I would guess you had something stop one side of your door from closing, and had a cable come off the drum, which caused the door to get crooked in the opening, and trying to close or open your door caused the tracks to bow outward. Then the service man you called sensed you knew nothing about what caused the problem, and decided to see how much he could take you for! Without knowing for sure, it is hard to guess what went wrong, but it could be a cable broke, and would cause the same results. The only way anyone could know if the springs needed changing would be if he knew how many cycles the springs had already made, which is impossible, or if one was broken, and advise you to change both, which is what he should do. As far as replacing badly worn or broken parts, he should show you why, and give you the option, not just do it, and give you an unjustified bill. At least, he should show you the parts he replaced so you could see that they really needed replacing.
I hope you got a reciept stating you got "lifetime" springs," because in 7 to 10 years, when the springs break, they will want to charge you again! Anyone who would guarantee springs for a lifetime is a fool! Whose "lifetime" are they refering to? Most springs will cycle approximately 10, 000 cycles. Plus or minus --- The only way to determine this is to figure how many times you open your door per week, multiply that by 52, and that will tell you how many times your door cycles in a year. Then you can make an educated guess how long your springs will last.
The best advice anyone can give is to get at least one more bid for the work to be done!
Posted 29 May 2010 at 1:43am #
Ha Ha, I can only assume that tech's like yourself are servicing an area where there are a lot of wealthy, very busy people who just call someone and have the task performed, and don't want to be bothered with dealing with several companies to get the best price. Their time is more important to them than the stress of getting the best deal for a once in a good number of years, service! When a spring breaks, or the opener needs service, they probably don't look to see if you put a label or card by the opener button. They probably just look in the ads and call whoever appeals to them.
Posted 29 May 2010 at 2:52am #
your right, but i do put a sticker by the button and I always get called back for other work with the sticker so they must of liked my work.
Posted 31 May 2010 at 11:30pm #
Dammit, rectom, ha ha, AH, a-hole, whatever it is, the correct spelling is you're not your and no one not knowone. Please spend some of that $4 million on English lessons.
Posted 02 Jun 2010 at 1:53pm #
wrecked em, you have nothing to say so your judging how people are writing on here. I suppose when someone writes lol, you would correct that too. Your a typical loner with nothing to talk about, go do a spring change or something, thats all you can do in life, what a loser.
Posted 02 Jun 2010 at 11:02pm #
Rectum,
Yes I do have something to say. I own a business that has been around since 1914 and has over 50 employees and my guys could run circles around you replacing garage door springs. We charge $200 to replace both springs and we are not going to the poor house because of it. Trust me, you don't stay in business for almost 100 years by not knowing how to price your services. So just leave, go play with yourself and your imaginary $4 million while floating in your warm tropical piss water. You look like and I'm sure you are a fool.
Posted 03 Jun 2010 at 12:00am #
Your an idiot, roll up garage doors havent even been around 100 years you bullshitter. Your a greasy low priced dirty slob. You probably have grease under your ugly finger nails. Your probably fat with skinny legs, and a fat overhanging belly from eating all that junk food while hanging dark dingy dirty garage doors. Your writing back so late because your still out there working in the dark on someones door, and you stink like shit now. Your wife probably is discusted with you and your boring conversations about what door you worked on or spring you changed. Your a typical beer belly fat unshaven stinky garage door loser. ewhhhhhhhh
Posted 03 Jun 2010 at 1:02am #
Wrecked em, I wonder how you know HaHaHaHa is Rectom, or whom ever! I would never have guessed!
The fact is, what does it matter how he uses the english language? He made you know what he meant!
Now, I believe this blog was designed to help people to learn what problems they might incur, and how to prevent or fix them, and to get advice from proffessionals in the industry. I know we all get a little off the path occassionally, and I probably am as bad as any when someone tells how he "gouges" people, just because he can! It also gets my Ire up when someone tries to pick a fight about something as trivial as miss spelling, or miss use of words used to express oneself on this blog! Lets use the blog in the manor in which it was intended! Thank you, WD
Posted 03 Jun 2010 at 3:11pm #
hahahaha,
I didn't say that all we did was install garage doors. It's a lumber company with 2 hardware stores and garage door service. As for "fat with skinny legs" not quite - just ran a marathon this weekend and am competing in my 4th Ironman this summer - nice try though. Too bad for you that this blog is here for people to see what should be charged for the service if someone would choose to hire a professional instead of doing it their own.
Posted 08 Jun 2010 at 2:45pm #
I have a guy here right now. My door is a 2 car garage door very heavy. The spring is 158.00 for one! he is replacing both! plus labor for 436.00 ouch!! I just purchased this house and have home owners insurance. That should cover it right?
Posted 10 Jun 2010 at 2:02pm #
just pay the guy, let him make a living, what are you complaining about, and why should he give you a break,if you were in business would you give him one. Dont listen to all these people on here, thats not what it really cost, if they paid a low price its for other reasons. I charged low a few times, because the customers woman that is offered me something in exchange, or maybe that customer was cute and thats why they got a deal. Knowone charges the same for everything
Posted 10 Jun 2010 at 11:06pm #
SB, I just don't understand the reasoning here. You get a guy to replace a couple of springs that cost no more than $30 each, agree to pay $158 each, then give him another $120 for less than an hours work. Do the math! He has been there less than an hour, makes three hundred seventy six bucks, at least, and you are worried about home owners insurance! I have never heard of home owners insurance paying for broken springs. Nor have I heard of them paying to have appliances fixed. I think that may come under a different policy. My question to you is, what kind of income do you have? Does it not matter how much you pay to have repairs made? When I need to have repairs made on my car or truck, the shop rates are almost $100 per hour. I holler like hell because I think it's too much! I'm not saying a garage door company shouldn't make that kind of rates, but I think the public needs to check them out or get another price before committing. If that is the going rate for the area, then, by all means, pay it!
Posted 04 Jul 2010 at 2:47am #
[quote comment="62107"]I have a guy here right now. My door is a 2 car garage door very heavy. The spring is 158.00 for one! he is replacing both! plus labor for 436.00 ouch!! I just purchased this house and have home owners insurance. That should cover it right?[/quote]
SB,
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I just paid $380 (The "Tec") wanted $420 to begin with to replace a broken longer single spring with two shorter ones for a two car sectional garage door. Today, less than one month later and three weeks of that We were on vacation, the cable came off of the drum on the left side and the door jammed 1/2 open and uneven, I called the repair company who advertise 24.7 service and all repairs warranty. After 3 calls they announce there was not a "Tec" available and this problem was nothing to do with the spring replacement and they could not come out until Tuesday as it was holiday weekend! Los Angeles Garage Door & Gates are a crap outfit. I managed to get the door closed myself, I consider the "Tec" did not balance the door correctly when he moved and replaced the drum to install the two new springs, I can only wonder what excuse they will come up with to say their parts and labor warranty does not cover this repair work.
David P.
Los Angeles, CA
Posted 05 Jul 2010 at 12:33pm #
David P.
There are several things that can cause a cable to come off a drum, one of which is most common, something stopping the travel of that side of the door. The door can come down on a car bumper and cause this. The sensors are below the bumper, and does not sense the obstruction, and the sensitivity on the opener may not be set sensitive enough to cause the door to reverse, causing slack in the cable. If that be the case, I would fault the door company for not checking that when he serviced your door.
I wish people would compare prices before having someone do the work. You are at their mercy if you don't have knowledge to argue with. I can't say what you should pay, but at least find out what going rates are for your area! Call the BBB to see if there are any complaints about ANY company! Whine, if you are taken by someone who tries to add to your bill with no justification! Have them show you the worn out rollers, frayed cables, etc, BEFORE they do the changes! That way you know the parts are from your door! But, whine to those who are trying to gouge you!
Posted 05 Jul 2010 at 1:09pm #
what was the name of the company? I bet they were not local even if they claim they are. Look up there licence number, they have the address listed on the cslb web page.
Posted 05 Jul 2010 at 1:47pm #
hahahaha,
Thanks for your reply, yes I intend to check into them with the local license situation, they also add 3% if you pay with a credit card which I understand is illegal so their will be another call to the report these guys. I did not mention in my post that another garage door repair company called me during my afternoon of need saying they could send a "tec" within 3 hours but they were not the original company who did the repair and they had a $45 service call fee + the cost of the repair, I asked this company (SHERMAN OAKS GARAGE DOOR) how they got my number and who asked them to call but they said they did not know!!! I think these two companies are related in some way. In my opinion anyone in need of work to garage doors in the Los Angeles Area should think twice before calling LOS ANGELES GARAGE DOORS & GATES OR SHERMAN OAKS GARAGE DOOR COMPANY.
I will let everyone know what happens when I talk to tLA Garage Doors & Gates on Tuesday July 6th.
David P.
Posted 06 Jul 2010 at 1:13am #
David P, I don't see your response to my reply yet, but you mentioned another door company calling, and you hadn't called them. There are door companies that operate under multiple names with different phone numbers. They also have to pay for extra advertising, to advertise the other listed businesses. There are also companies like Service Magic, who don't do any work, only advertise in different trades, then sell the leads to contractors who sign up with them. Everyone who signs up has to pay for the lead, and, of course, only one can get the deal! Nice racket, huh! Service Magic isn't alone in this. There are also those who advertise their door company, but have no office,---- anywhere! They contract with other door companies to do the work. Because they spend a lot of money with phone books all over the nation, they get fantastic discounts. Some offer prices that sound too good to be true for a service call, but the fine print maybe says "$30.00 for first 15 minutes, but figures $120.00 per hour! Time can often start when they leave their shop!
I have seen warnings about companies who don't have an office, and work out of their homes. Sometimes it isn't feasible to have a store. There really isn't much "walk in" customers in the door business unless you are selling other products, related or not. Most of us sell our product, "installed!" I don't need a show room. When someone wants to see my product, I send them to my website. There is far more there than I could possibly display in my shop, and I still have my shop for parts and accessory storage, as well as keep my trucks inside, and I don't have to be sitting at my desk to answer the phone!
Anytime you call a garage door company and want to know if they are local, ask them. Ask to go to their website, and see how long they have been in business, and how long have they been local. Ask for references, like, where is their distribution center, and maybe call them to find out if they are reputable. The center may not be able to give you a lot of information, but if you ask them for references, they can give you a few names, and if they don't give you the name of the one you're concerned about, ask specifically!
I do business with several distribution centers, and have no problem giving you their phone numbers. My bill is always paid, and I have never had any complaints!
Please, folks! Compare prices!
Posted 21 Jul 2010 at 1:30pm #
I called Long Beach's choice Overhead Garage doors for a door opener for my mom. It turns out her spring was broken and LBCOGD replaced the one spring with 2 new ones and added $600 to the bill. The total bill was for just under a $1000. I complained, but it did no good. I would have sent them packing if I had been at her home, but they came early and the guy was already working when I got there at the time the appointment was set. Don't call these guys.
Posted 21 Jul 2010 at 1:38pm #
I forgot to add that 6 months later the overhead Garaged door would not open with the opener they installed. There is no other access door because this is a home built in the late 1950s, so there was no way to open the door and get the car out. Long Beach's Choice Overhead Garage door came out and put in a new key entry near the center top of the door, even though there was a key entry lock already in the center, but closer to the bottom of the door. This time they charged over $300. So now the total bill is over $1300 for the original call for a garage door opener that originally was going to cost a little over $300. These guys have a very fancy website, guess who's paying for it.
Posted 22 Jul 2010 at 12:00am #
Jean Quin, I can only give an "educated guess" that the previous lock in the door was only to unlock the door to open it before the first opener was installed. The new lock was installed because they had to hook the emergency release cord, because it had to be released from the opener. To do that, they had to drill a hole near the top of the door, because that is where the release cord is. Then, they had to put a lock in the hole they made, or anyone could use the same procedure to gain access to the garage!
You didn't mention what the problem was that caused the door to not open, after they had changed the springs. With new springs and a new opener, I would suppose the fault would have to be LBCOGD's, as, in my opinion, anything that would cause the malfunction, would be something they did, or neglected to do, laying the fault on them!
I guess the only real beef is about the fees they charge. Different areas can get more for their services than others. It depends on the economy in each area. You also did not say how long ago this all occured. If you want to file a complaint, the best time to do so, is right after it happens. Please! get more than one price, for anything!
Posted 25 Feb 2011 at 6:21am #
If there was a slipped cable (off the drum) or the cables were spooling unevenly because the owner or a user closed the door on a broom handle jammed in the track or something similar, and there was no access otherwise, how could that be the garage door repair firm's fault? * We had one just yesterday with no second access where the garage door opener had gotten "locked" to remote control signals apparently by a power surge. The owner had a key for the external manual disconnect but said it wouldn't work. Turns out the key was bent. Our technician installed a keyless entry so a future power surge won't cost her a service call. But a broom handle in the track or a broken spring still could, and that's something we can't prevent.
* as an intake writer, I've asked people about this and received a denial - then my technician gets to the site and the broom is still there or there is a dent in the bottom section that the owner "never noticed" before, or the owner will say that they "kept hitting the button" when it wouldn't close. I hate to say it but some people are clueless about their garage doors and openers, even though they may excell at their own profession. I have only spoken to a handful of people who had any idea that a door and operator should be maintained/serviced and periodically safety tested other than when something is broken. People have the idea that safety sensors are failproof and that the sensor indicator lights indicate everything is ok with the system.
Posted 04 Aug 2010 at 1:52pm #
Came home from work yesterday and my garage door would not open more than 2 inches, when i checked it out i noticed the left spring broke, I called Sears in town (Joliet, IL) they wanted $229 to replace both springs. I went online to the BBB and found an "A" company in Cicero, IL (Advanced Garage Doors) called them up they quoted me $175 to replace both springs and said they could be out to my house with 2 hrs., they arrived as promise and 50min later they were done. Very happy with service.
Lou
Posted 04 Aug 2010 at 9:51pm #
Way to go, Lou! After spending nearly an hour, I would surmise they did a thorough job and checked for any problems that might be preventable, and serviced the door as well!
Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 11:14am #
And they probably used springs they took off other jobs. They are most likely used springs that were the other non broken half of someone elses springchange. Alot of companies are doing this and even calling them "reconditioned springs".
Posted 17 Aug 2010 at 2:52pm #
Josh posted that the most danger in garage door repair is in the center anchor bracket, (lags splitting 2x4 pad) He said he has been injured by that himself, a 10 year veteran.
I've been doing this for over 30 years and have never been injured, other than frayed cables ripping me, or trying to work over obstacles that I should have had the owner move, or charged them to do it myself. Usually have another appointment to go to, so try to make it work while there.
I have had mechanics try to repair springs themselves. One in particular, had a broken spring. Was going to take it down and weld the wires together, and make it work. Only he didn't realize, one spring broken, the other still had tension. The right spring was broken, he got his impact wrench, held the bracket with his left hand while removing the nuts, and when the second nut came off, he nearly lost his hand!
It's these things that the lay person come accross that they don't realize can hurt them. The trouble is that these people won't ask anyone how to do it. They feel they can figure anything mechanical out and save the cost of a professional, and wind up costing them much more.
Usually, folks, a professional will save you time and money, because they know what to look for and how to fix it. They will check for anything that could compromise the integrity and operation of your door, and repair the situation, lube and service your door, and make sure it is operating like it is supposed to. Normally, if you let them do what is necessary, your door should last and operate like a new door for years to come!
Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 2:54pm #
Fartbox, I'm nearly speachless over your comment! I can't imagine where you get your information, unless you are relaying what you do yourself! I have NEVER heard of anyone claiming a used spring to be "reconditioned," for that matter, I've never heard of a reconditioned spring! I don't believe even a fool would re-use a used spring! The cost of a new spring is such a small amount of the total for any complete job, and you don't have to worry if it will break before you get it wound!
Oh yes, Fartbox, I was wondering which comment you were refering to with your comment?! "And they----------?
Posted 18 Aug 2010 at 3:10pm #
I know springs only cost around 10 dollars on average,but who do you know who orders only one spring? And who orders springs as they need them and leaves to go get them. Usually a good company will carry most springs and mix and match if needed. You mention springs are so low cost that others wont do this, well if your running 5 or 6 trucks and load them with every white, yellow, brown,green, gold, blue, etc spring, not to mention both left and right hand springs, they add up, so yes I have not only heard of people using old springs, but have actually seen it. I know a company right now calling them reconditioned and selling them for alittle less then a new one. Trust me it is happening out there, where do you think I got this info, from the top of my head? Example, they give a customer a price of say 490.00 for new ones, and if the customer says that seems high, they offer them reconditioned ones for about half, like 250.00. Most customers buy into this because alot of them just think of the money and not the product, and as long as they say they are reconditioned and usually paint them to look new too, thats all that matters.
Posted 19 Aug 2010 at 12:08pm #
Fartbox, I don't have a clue how long you have been in the business, but you should have enough spring combinations on your truck to replace springs on any residential door in your area, times at least 4, and replace them daily. This part is not rocket science! Fifteen or twenty springs should combine to give you the proper IPPT's to service ANY residential door! Ask your supplier what springs you should carry, or keep track of the springs you normally replace, and when you buy a spring to do a repair, buy two. That way you will build a stock, then you won't have to use "reconditioned" springs! You, and your customer, will both be more satisfied with the results!
Posted 19 Aug 2010 at 4:31pm #
I hope you hang doors better then you read emails. I said I heard of others who do this not me. I have done doors for over 30 yrs.
Posted 20 Aug 2010 at 12:30am #
Well, fartbox, I'm sorry, but I could have sworn I saw something between the lines. YOU were complaining about the cost of springs because you have to have sooo many! YOU know of these companies who do this! YOU have seen this done! YOU know they camo these springs with paint-------! See where I'm going? Does anyone else see it the way I see it, or am I making too much out of it?
If any professional is using used springs, just realize, it is YOUR reputation you are playing with and yours alone! It WILL catch up with you!
I'm sure I'm not alone, but I have had customers refuse to replace both springs at the time one has broken, and had the old spring break while rewinding it. Also have had to return to replace the original a week later! It's not worth trying to use them over, no matter who is doing it!
Posted 30 Aug 2010 at 5:23pm #
Last night when I closed the garage door I heard what sounded like a gun shot. It was the tension springf braking on the garage door. I waited untill this morning to call for service and the guy said it would be 85 dollars to come out around eleven am to repair the door. We needed to get the doors open, so we could get at least one car out. To come withing the hour he told me he would charge twice ($170) plus the cost of the springs. He ended up charging me $100 for each spring and the $170 for a total of $370. I live in Palm Desert, CA. He was a little high, but what can you do. Took less then an hour and the door works fine.
Posted 31 Aug 2010 at 12:41pm #
to dick, and your point is? Why are you on here to complain or what
Posted 01 Sep 2010 at 10:05am #
Fartbox, I believe this blog is here for anyone who wants to express onesself to do so! Dick has just as much right to express himself here as anyone.
You came onto the site with an attitude. No one chastised you for it. I questioned the authentisity of your comments, still do, but you still have the right to express your views. Dick has the same right.
Right now, I wonder if you have an anger management problem!
Posted 07 Sep 2010 at 8:50pm #
My garage had a rather long and thick center mounted torsion spring. I went to a couple of places locally and could not find that particular spring. It turns out the broken spring was not the one that should have been on my garage door. I ended up hiring a garage door company and was charged 122$ parts and labor which included some adjustments on my garage door and opener. The guy did the job in 30 minutes. Of course he made it look easy saying that he has done the job in near darkness before. It came with a 5 year warranty on the spring and a one year labor warranty. I would most likely do the job myself the next time, but I was pressed for time and couldn't afford a screw up. All in all it didn't break the bank.
Posted 13 Sep 2010 at 2:35am #
Andy, for $122.00 I can't imagine why you would even CONSIDER doing the job yourself! If the proper spring wasn't in place, what would you have to go by to select a spring? Trial and error? If your time is worth anything at all, the grief alone is not worth it! We'll let you do your job, just let us do ours. You probably do your job better than we could, and I'm sure we will do ours better than you! The tech probably serviced your door while he was there also, which makes it even more worthwhile! WD
Posted 15 Dec 2010 at 11:28am #
Why would I not let you do your job and I'm sure you would do a better job then me. Remember now I do have the correct spring in place so if I need another I do know what to get. After reading what others paid or were quoted I realize I got a good deal. I likely would get estimates again and if one was reasonable I would just have someone else do it.
Posted 13 Oct 2010 at 6:38pm #
I will never try to fix my garage door springs. I had seen videos and talked to people how have fixed and replaced their springs and thought I could do it. I am an auto mechanic, very mechanically inclined, and had attempted to replace my springs. Well, I did everything to the book and upon tightening the last spring, it broke. A brand new spring broke. My hand got trapped behind the wrench and the spring broke my hand and fingers in multiple places, my arm had 6 breaks elbow was broken. I had to go and see a neuro-surgeon, lost my job and I will never have full function of my hand again. Before you go and install a spring, or do anything associated with a garage door, I would call a professional first. If you want to do it yourself go right on ahead. Go to your local hospital and ask the er department how many people go to them each year from garage door accidents, you'll be amazed. I lost a lot more from attempting to replace A spring then spending the little bit of money it would have taken a proffesional Toronto it for me
Posted 14 Oct 2010 at 8:40pm #
Folks,
Charles is a garage door Guy who is clinging to the past. The door dealers that are left want to strike fear into the public to protect what is left of their protectionism society. Facts are that Garage Doors are no more dangerous than a power saw, lawn mower or driving a car for that matter. If you do your homework and follow the directions it is not rocket science.
This string started out as a real good place that the general public could turn to for advice from the garage door professional. Unfortunately it has degenerated to a handful of disgruntled computer jockeys venting, flaming and telling outright lies. In the end, the few have made themselves and the entire industry look ridiculous.
The cold hard truth of the matter is that the myths of the past have been exposed. The average person can indeed repair a garage door and or garage door opener. There are plenty of very good web sites out there that tell it like it is, provide guidance and the proper parts and tools to get any garage door repair completed properly and safely.
Stand back, the flamers will have a field day with this post. More fuel to the fire that is basically a small group who have stood by and watched the ever changing garage door industry pass them by.
Stop by: http://www.youdoitstore.com and spend some time watching our videos. We cover every type of residential garage door repair. Judge for yourself. Do these repairs look like something that the average do it your selfer can not accomplish?
Joe
Posted 15 Oct 2010 at 1:08am #
Being a professional, I try to analyze what you are telling us. Garage door personel can visualize the procedure as you are telling your story, and something just don't look right. True, springs can break bones, but I don't understand how a spring breaking trapped your hand! Sounds like you may have tried to take it apart after it broke without un winding the spring you had already wound.
I won't say it can't happen, but I have never had a NEW spring break while winding it. I would rather think that, being uncomfortable at what you were doing, you may have put the old, un broken spring back up, and were winding THAT spring when IT broke! (that's why we always sugest changing both springs, although only one is broken) Being a mechanic, I could just imagine you using an air impact to take the bolts out of the center support bracket while holding the bolts with your hand. When they come loose with tension on them, they will hit you more times than you can count before you can retract your hand! THAT BREAKS BONES!
Folks, for health sake, make sure both springs are relaxed before removing any bolts or loosening any set screws!
Posted 13 Dec 2010 at 12:47pm #
My garage door torsion spring broke on Sunday morning, 12/12/10. I called Billy Doors in Burtonsville. Billy answered and gave me a $275 quote to come out on Monday at 8:30 or for an additional $75 he would come out on Sunday. I chose Monday. He explained that most manufacturers will install one torsion spring on an uninsulated metal door to keep costs down. He said for this price he would install two torsion springs and test my door. He arrived as scheduled this morning and even with his constant talking and explanations of his work (he truly knows his job and loves talking about it), he was finished in approximately 45 minutes. In fact the job would have taken less time if he spent less time talking and explaining the history for torsion springs and how to calculate the size of the spring for each door. He was pleasant and amiable. Billy told me he had 4 more scheduled repairs today and may even get some unexpected business. I truly think the matter of replacing torsion bars should be left to a professional. However, I have replaced the side springs several times and an amateur can do these with minimal effort and time. The torsion spring is another matter and although I think I paid a lot for this job, it sure beats going to the ER to repair a broken hand or finger. Don't forget, when these springs need replacing, I had two cars in the garage. No one is not left with a lot of room in a garage when you have two cars, lawn mower, snow blowers, recycle bins, etc. Dropping one tool on a car trunk or car hood would certainly cost more to repair than the savings from a "do-it-yourself" job. (Billy discounted my service call to $260 when I told him I was a Veteran.) If you need a local garage door repairman, call Billy at 301-367-9160 and tell him the Marine referred you.
Posted 17 Dec 2010 at 11:47am #
I's appreciate a recommendation for a reputable garage door service company for replacing both torsion springs on my Dalton 14' metal garage door in the north metro Atlanta area (Cherokee County).
Posted 18 Jan 2011 at 9:44am #
I walked in to the house and heard a loud bang but did not realize I had a problem until I tried to open the garage door the next day. I googled "garage door won't open" and discovered that I had a spring snap. After trying to deal with Sears to send someone over with no luck I was able to contact a repair guy at 6pm and got an estimate for $120 to replace one and $170 to replace two. He was over in about 10 minutes and took about an hour to replace both springs. Well worth the cost in Mid-January in Michigan.
Posted 07 Feb 2011 at 8:31pm #
Garage door springs are dangerous for an amateur to get involved with. We've seen many injuries sustained by even experienced professionals. Most folks out there simply don't have the tools, others strength to setup the spring properly. There is a large number of companies offering qualified service. I suppose when you're searching on google, limit your searches to your locality - this might help.
cheers!
Posted 09 Feb 2011 at 1:30pm #
Genie garage door openers pick up doors with broken springs!
Genie garage door openers will pick up doors with broken springs until it compromises the machine. I don't know how someone hasn't been killed by one of these poorly engineered dangerous machines. If you have a Genie get rid of it it's not safe. And don' buy one of these cheap pieces of junk. We are a professional garage door company and are forced to work on Genie but we won't sell them and we never recommend them. It's been a real problem for us and I assume many other pro's.
Posted 09 Feb 2011 at 6:35pm #
Kirby's door, I don't know your age, but all garage door openers I have worked on, or been around, have sensitivity adjustments, The older overhead door openers were probably the strongest residential openers I've worked on, but still had sensitivity adjustments. ANY opener should be adjusted so as to not destroy the top section of the door when a spring breaks. I've replaced a good many doors and top sections because someone installed the opener without setting the open sensitivity. They seem to only be concerned that it CLOSES without excessive force!
I've been in this business over thirty years, and I've never seen a Geni opener that didn't have a sensitivity adjustment. I won't proclaim Geni to be junk, but I have other preferences. There are other openers I will work on, but only a small amount I will endorse. Some installers like Geni. Some will only sell Geni. They know them and understand them. I guess that's why we can have choices. More competition gives us more choices, at prices we can afford!
Posted 18 Feb 2011 at 3:04pm #
Hi:
Just ran across this blog. I was out at work and our garage door stopped closing, so my wife called a garage door company.
They came out, and told her the sensors needed replacing. Took about an hour and then left an invoice for $430!!!!
345 dollars to replace the part
85 dollar service charge.
I just left them a message - I'm pretty pissed, but what do you think is a fair price? Besides being dubious they needed replacing in the first place, I can't really prove that now, it's too late, but interested in your opinion.
I will pay them for their time, but seeing as I can pick those same sensors up for 30 bucks at Home Depot, $400 is ridiculous, even though I do live in Southern California.
Posted 18 Feb 2011 at 3:25pm #
Most garage door guys have extra sensors on their trucks because alot of times when changing out openers they leave the old ones, so chances are they sold you something they didnt even pay for. They are even under most manufacture warentees where they should of only charged you the service call to change them, because they can turn them in and get credited for the bad ones they took off your house. I would put a stop payment on the check or charge, and dont tell them or they will run to the bank and cash the check. You should post the name of the company that did this to you so some will know and avoid them. You can also call the contractors state license board and they will find something to charge them with even if they dont feel they did anything wrong with you. The cslb is desperate and needs money so they will fine them for something. They even will intimadate them into giving you your money back, because they live by their own set of laws. Dont waste your time with the better business burough they dont do anything. Hope that helps.
Posted 18 Feb 2011 at 6:15pm #
You can get a nice new opener installed for that. Fair price? Dude you got raped!
Posted 18 Feb 2011 at 8:09pm #
Tony, you probably had bumped one of the sensors and miss aligned it, or, put a tool or something in the corner, by one of the sensors, and broke the wire. The sensors very, very seldom need replacement. I've been on calls because the customer didn't want me to tell him what to do, but come fix it. For the cost of the service call! I was happy, and the customer was pleased. That's how I get a lot of my work! References from happy customers!
Posted 18 Feb 2011 at 11:43pm #
In October, 2010, Joe posted a comment about door companies trying to discourage homeowners from DIY spring replacements. He stated that, basicly, anyone who could run a skill saw, chainsaw, or even mowing your own lawn, could surely replace your own springs. Even provided a website you can click on for ordering parts and instructions to do the job. I got curious and clicked on the site to see what kind of advice they had, and found that they really advise you to hire a professional, if you have little mechanical ability, and if you don't have the proper tools. They also tell you that if you make a mistake and order the wrong spring, it's yours! NO RETURNS! They tell you how to measure the spring that is there, but if that spring just didn't happen to be the right one, you have to weigh the door, and give them the size and weight. Then they can calculate the spring size for you. They tell you, you need a micrometer, calipers, amoung other tools. How many of you do it yourselfers have micrometers? How many of you have a scale that would weigh the door? Probably not many! No, it's not rocket science, but professionals have the tools, and the knowledge, to do the job right! WD
Posted 23 Feb 2011 at 12:24pm #
So our 8 year old garage door (2 car, 1 door) spring croaked. We called a company to come out based on web praise, and they had a "free" 25 point inspection on their site. When we scheduled we were not told there was a $75 service charge.
The tech comes out and says yep, its your spring, but since its "contractor grade" I can't replace the spring. I have to replace all of it which includes the springs (2?) and bearings, plus the other parts that go around it. Not the motor (a liftmaster), not the track, not the door itself. Just the springs mechanism. The quote: $600. So we said whoa, we didn't expect that much (had done some homework on the web about expected range for this type of repair) and asked him to give us written quote and we would get back to him. Of course, we are going to have to shop around since this was a few 100 over what we expected and we couldn't tell if this was a rip off or not. That's when he popped the $75 "service fee" on us, and I told my hubby not to pay it, they didn't tell us up front there was a charge and this seemed very fishy. So he said he would "Credit" us the fee if we replaced the spring with them and left a invoice, which my husband signed (do NOT get me started).
But I digress. My question is what is "contractor grade" and why can't another spring be put in?? It lasted 8 years, hey, give us another contractor grade one and charge us less. I don't necessarily need the platinum plated version, ya know?
Is $600 too high to replace the springs? This is a quote in NC.
Thanks all, this is a very useful and informative forum!
Posted 23 Feb 2011 at 3:20pm #
JNNC, I don't care where you are, if a garage door tech walks in your garage and says you have contractor springs or system, tell them to leave before you call the cops! Garage doors come with 10,000 cycle springs, unless you ask for longer life springs. You can't look up at them and know the difference. The length of time 10,000 springs will last depends on how much you use your door. you can figure how many times you open and close your door (one cycle, up and down) per day, and how many per year, times 7 years. Should be pretty close to 10,000, give or take a few. Any need for replacement of tube or bearing plate can only be determined by dissassembly and inspection. Rollers and bearings can be inspected by observation, but, hands on! I advise you to replace both springs when only one is broken, as they have both cycled the same number of times, and the unbroken spring could break while re winding it, or in a short time, and you have to pay the full price for a single spring replacement again. Do them both at the time it is dissassembled and it only costs for an additional spring, not another service call. I can't tell you how much you should pay for the service, but I don't charge for a service call to bid on a job. A service call is for service performed, and I price spring replacement to include the labor to perform this task. If there are other problems, they are called to the home owners attention, and priced to him, and he can then make the decision, based on my knowledge of the need.
I would call the BBB and report this conduct. It won't help you, but will put a mark against them for all to see if anyone calls to inquire about this company before using them for garage door service.
Posted 23 Feb 2011 at 4:59pm #
Actually, you can tell the difference. The longer the spring, the higher the cycle life. Also, it has been my experience in my 10 years of doing garage doors that galvanized springs don't last as long as oil tempered. The term "contractor grade" is total horse crap though, I'll give you that. The way I explain it to my customers is that most garage doors come out of the factory built for ten thousand cycles. We don't carry anything less than thirty thousand because I'd rather get it done right the first time and never have to come back. I have done some $600 tickets but that's replacing the entire torsion system and installing nylon ball bearing rollers and new hinges. Some people let their doors go far too long on bad springs. I would never charge a service fee on top of all that. I also provide a five year warranty on ALL parts I replace. So I'm not saying you should have spent the $600; the guy was obviously a fraud. But do ask about cycle life and warranty years. There is absolutely no reason you can't have a 5 year warranty. Also, ask the technician to weigh your door so he gives you the correct springs. If he doesn't have a scale, tell him to leave. He may not need to weigh your door. I pretty much know what springs go on a door when I pull up to the house. But he should at least have the scale. You may irritate him, but insist on having your door weighed. The frustration will keep him from trying to sell you parts you don't need. Most technicians only have so much time to spend on each job so if you waste some of that time he will want to get your door running and head to the next one. Now I hope nobody uses my advice against me! Have a great one!
Posted 23 Feb 2011 at 6:30pm #
I have been reading this site's posts for some time now and I can't believe all the misinformation dished out here. If you live in Denver call us. If you don't call a few reputable companies, they are in your area. All reputable door companies can quote spring replacements over the phone. You may need to know a few simple things about your door like whats it made out of and how big it is. Questions most customers can easily answer. If they tell you they have to come out to look at your broken residential garage door spring and can't give you a basic quote over the phone then they are not reputable companies. We do 400+ residential spring changes a year. We charge $195.00 for standard 16x7 wood or steel doors we use 2 high cycle galvanized torsion springs. We include a free lube and tune of the door and opener. Also included is a three year parts and labor warranty on the springs. Don't hire any Garage Door company who hasn't been in business for minimum of 10 years and has at the very least a clean BBB record. Do your home work folks check around ripoffs abound in the Garage Door Business!
Posted 25 Feb 2011 at 2:39pm #
Kirby's, No one cares how many spring changes you do per year. It is irevelant to the comments. I personally am impressed with your attitude about pricing. I don't believe you have to rape people to make a living. At $150 to $200 per double spring charge is reasonable, and, it should be a given to lube all moving parts, examine for excessive wear or broken parts, and check sensitivity, both open and close. If you don't do these things, you are not doing your customer, or yourself justice. Doing this kind of service, you can do 4 to 6 service calls per day, if the work is available, and still get home early!
Most service trucks have an assortment of springs in their mobile inventory. Seldom is the case you would have to go to a job and have to leave to get the proper spring. They don't have to be an exact match to what was there, as long as the ippt is the same with the recommended turns for longivity. You are right about quoting over the phone, but always leave yourself protected for the unexpected problems the customer didn't tell you about, or was unaware of. Just don't fix anything other than what you were called for without discussing it with the customer.
I probably don't cover everything with this posting, but I have one other comment for this time. If a new business has to be in business for 10 years before you let him work on your garage door, how is he to survive? Very few businesses start up without some experience. Usually a new garage door company forms from a split off a family business, of someone who has worked for a company long enough to have the needed experience. Give the new guy a break! You can always call him back if something isn't right. After all, You had to start someplace, didn't you?
Just make sure you check the going prices for your area. Don't just call and have someone do the work. I'm sure you don't just go buy a new tv, or a car without checking if someone offers a better deal!
Posted 25 Feb 2011 at 4:01pm #
Only mentioned 400 to add creditably Warren. As for being in business for 10 years everybody has to pay their dues. Most businesses like ours get started off the tail gate of a truck. It can be a struggle getting any new business off the ground. That's why you don't see a whole lot of garage door companies in our area that have been in business for 10 years or more. It reflects confidence when a business has a track record and creditability. I wish you good luck with your business you sound like a good guy.
Posted 25 Feb 2011 at 10:53pm #
On my previous post today I mentioned to cover yourself when giving a quote over the phone. A customer called and wanted his spring wound. He told me he had wraped the cables around the drums, but couldn't wind the spring. I gave him a basic price, not knowing anything other than a service call. I got there and found a single car garage that was more cluttered than my own, (which is pretty bad) He had the cables wound around the drums ok, but the bottom fixtures were still attached to them---dangling from the drum! I told him he would have been better off had he just left it alone and called me. Now, my job became a little more difficult. The first task, after removing the cables he had wound, was to find the bottom of the door at each side. That wasn't easy, as there was no place to put what was stored in the area I had to work in. Long story short, it took an hour to do a 15 minute job! The man is a disabled vet, and I had a slow day, and gave him a real break, but you can't always do that. When he discovered he had made my job more difficult, he was willing to pay whatever he had to. Giving someone like this a break says a lot for you, and he will remember you, and I guarantee, he will send you more business, and you have a new friend! Just make sure you don't tell someone you will do a job for a certain price, and find out you can't! Give a tentative price, with an "if" attached!
Homeowners, if you aren't familiar with how a garage door works, you can cause more work to make it funcional again, by trying to fix it yourself, and cause the cost to repair it more than if you had just called a professional when you discovered you had a problem!
We will let you do your job, let us do ours. It will pay dividends because a professional will service your door and check for worn or broken parts that you may miss in your observation because you aren't familiar with what you are looking for. We will also make sure your opener is working properly, and safety features are functioning properly, as well as the up and down sensitivity. Not doing the complete job is just puting a "bandaid" on it.
An anual service call can asure you your door will operate problem free for years, other than a spring breaking. We have no way to prevent that, only to prolong it with longer life springs. They cost a little more, but can be tripple the life of standard springs.
Posted 27 Feb 2011 at 2:39am #
If you aren't completely sure on how to replace springs you should hire a professional. We all know the dangers of torsion springs. Even experienced handymen can struggle with basic safety when dealing with torsion springs.
With that being said the costs of spring changeouts will vary by location. Midwest rates are probably less than big city rates. If you pay over $250 total for torsion spring work in the midwest you are getting ripped off - unless, you live more than 30 minutes from the repairman and they have built in a fuel surcharge.
Sample Rates
$165 one spring
$210 two springs
less $30 for extension springs
The company using these quotes does 7-10 spring changeouts daily - so volume helps keep costs down due to economies of scale and fixed costs etc.
You never really know what you are getting yourself into during spring replacements. Sometimes cables need replacement, rollers put back in track etc but the average job would take about 45 minutes. Yes, you can do it it under 30 minutes out the door if necessary, but not over the long term or safely.
I seriously doubt anyone can charge $700 over the long term for residential spring changeouts during normal business hours, even in a big city. Then again you may snag a couple suckers once in a while. Doing business like that will get you in all sorts of trouble over the long term.
Posted 04 Apr 2011 at 6:33pm #
there is a company out there named Door Mart in california and charges consumers what ever they feel they can get out of them. These last 2 comments seem like they got scammed by them. If they advertise free estimates in there ads, they will get sited from the contractors license board if they charged them for a free estimate, so if i were them i would call the license board on them. Good luck
Posted 07 Jun 2011 at 12:44am #
Common sense... No more dangerous that doing your own automotive brake job and driving to work the next day. Yeah, you have to have some understanding of the compnents and procedures but it ain't rocket science.
I've done a half dozen or so spring replacements for myself, family, friends, and neighbors.
If anything read the How-to's so you know if the guy charging you to do the work knows what they are doing...
The nice things about *all* DIY projects is sticking it to the tax man... 😉
Posted 07 Jun 2011 at 10:59am #
Russell Stephan
Congratulations! You are very talented! Just don't try to convince those who are not, they can do something that has a potential of being very hazzardous to their health or well being. I have a couple of questions for you though. Did you replace both springs, or just the broken spring? Did you check for balance after you finished? did you check for alignment or keep the same tension on both cables? How about loose bolts or nuts? And lubrication, did you lube the rollers and all the bearings? If you did, what did you use? WD40 is a no no, unless of course you wish to do this every other week. How about the set screws in the drums and springs.Did you tighten both on each item, and how tight did you turn them. They only have to be tight against the torsion tube, then a quarter turn. If you tighten them too tight, they distort the tube, and you will need to drive them off next time, maybe damaging the drum, or even breaking out a winding bar hole in a cone. I'm sure you won't have an extra in your tool box.
It has nothing to do with the job at hand, but I am wondering how the tax man came into this. Do tax men change garage door springs? Seems to me you are "sticking it to the pro!" Actually not! You are only trying to save a buck, and I have no problem with that. I do it myself on occassion. I even mow my own lawn!
Posted 07 Jun 2011 at 11:26am #
No matter what any do it DIY'er says, spring changes are very dangerous and best left to the pro's who work with them every day. Go to any emergency room in this country and ask about garage door spring injures they have all seen them. Ask your self before attempting a spring replacement this question. Is risking my health and safety really worth a couple hundred bucks?
Posted 08 Jun 2011 at 10:10am #
Hello! I have a 2 car/2 doors garage. The single torsion spring on one of the doors broke and the cables popped. I called a local reputable company and they just came. I paid $75 for the service call as I felt their asking repair price was excessive: $250 for the spring, $89 for the cables, $75 for the service call for a total of $435 with tax! I called a few other local companies (Westchester county in NY) and all seem to charge around $200 for the torsion spring... I am not using that side of the garage thankfully but as a single woman with zero mechanical skills will definitely not consider fixing it myself! I already spent $ for the useless service call, please any idea on how to order torsion springs and where to 'search' for a qualified repairman? I am willing to pay around $200 but not $400+
Thanks so much
Posted 18 Jun 2011 at 12:51pm #
Be very careful and do your homework prior to calling any company, if possible. My husband and I had a poor experience with a franchise in the Tucson, AZ area several weeks ago when the spring broke. We were charged $425 for a job that should not have been more than $200. In addition, the website offered unlimited warranty on parts and when I mentioned that to the technician, he said he could only give us 90 days! The work had been done and we were mortified when we found out later in the day from neighbors that we had been gouged. We are fighting the charge and plan on going through many resources and agencies to get this rectified. We are seniors and an easy target for unscrupulous companies. Wish us luck.
Posted 03 Jul 2011 at 11:56am #
Libby, may I ask what company it was? I live in Tucson.
Posted 11 Jul 2011 at 9:40am #
Hi Josh,
Just got back in and read your email. Sorry it took so long to respond. The company is Precision Garage Doors, they have a hugely glitzy add in the phone book and on line. I would avoid them at all cost.
Posted 11 Jul 2011 at 10:20am #
Precision Garage Door is known to be the worst ripoff company in the country with an F in the BBB. A national franchise who we always suspected of being the New Jersey mob. Check out msnbc for the scam they caught them running in Phoenix. Many other Garage door company's are running the same scams. We see Companies offering free springs and $150 spring changes which turn into $400 and $500 worth of unnecessary repairs all the time. In today's economic times everyone is looking to get something for nothing and there are plenty of scam artists out there to pray on you. Sorry you got scammed Libby but there is also no guarantee they even put the right springs on your door. People beware ripoffs abound in the Garage Door business.
Posted 13 Jul 2011 at 8:58pm #
Thanks for the informative feedback Glen....I knew that "smacked in the face" feeling was not my imagination. I am a tenacious so and so which enabled me to pursue this headache to a conclusion (don't mess with me). The "district manager" took $150 off of our bill (something anyway) and warranteed the 2 springs, center bearing and labor for as long as we are in the house, a claim all over their website but not honored when the work was completed. We are still awaiting the new invoice and warranty papers. I will believe it when I see it. So far, we haven't paid a penny. We put a hold on the credit card the day after the work was done and they were unable to charge us. It has been a pain, to say the least.
Posted 14 Jul 2011 at 11:57am #
Stay away from Precision garage doors! Usually they don't even have an office. It's a franchise and they are told what they have to charge people, just like McDonalds or Wendys. I think they have to attend a rip off school to buy the franchise. It's too bad people don't visit this website BEFORE calling someone to repair their garage door. Also, stay away from Service Magic! They sell the leads to other garage door companies who have to pay for the lead whether they get the job or not. Always check the BBB or ask how long they have been in business, or in the community.
Libby, Don't hold your breath! Also, if the door works OK, pay them a reasonable sum and forget it!
Posted 14 Jul 2011 at 12:44pm #
What mystifies me is that Precision Doors of Tucson has an A+ BBB rating! Whoa. None of this nonsense would have happened if my husband had been able to open the door manually and take out the car before calling any company on a Saturday afternoon late. It was an emergency and we did what we thought was reasonable. Almost always, we research, research, research before making a major decision. This time, it was a leap of faith and we goofed. Crooks abound.
Posted 14 Jul 2011 at 3:53pm #
Libby, maybe you can help change their rating in your area by reporting your experience with them. It only takes a phone call, and be sure to share your experience with your friends, and ask them to share with theirs as well!
Posted 19 Jul 2011 at 10:55pm #
My spring just broke the door is 5 years old but i will tell you its been up and down 3-6 x a day
this is my opinion and mine alone I consider my self a middle of the road handy man I would never attempt this job there are a ton of people who have lose fingers got hit in the head are wreck a car
my guy is charging $169.00 parts and labor that's for 2 springs
Posted 19 Jul 2011 at 11:02pm #
look there is more than putting a spring on,right size spring tension
leveling of door cables back on right
I am retired and no i have no interest in fixing doors
I called the guy who put the door up when my house was built
5 years ago
what i am trying to say to you this is a very dangerous job you can get hurt badly or wreck a car there I some thing i dont give a second thought to fixing but garage doors is not one of them
you do what you think is best but a $169.00 is worth my time and piece of mind
have you noticed no one has said how they made a mistake and worked hours fixing it
good luck to all to me $169.00 is nothing for piece of mind
Posted 27 Sep 2011 at 3:07pm #
We just had to have both torsion springs replaced since one broke last night as I closed the garage door as I left home. When my husband returned home, the door went up 4-5 inches and then stopped.
I used this site to see what costs to expect and you were right on the (garage door opener) button, so to speak. In West St. Louis, MO, county: $274 for two torsion springs and labor.
Service reps from Overhead Door Co. were on-time, friendly and informative, and within dollars of their estimate. While I totally hate "surprise bills," their service makes this one easier to swallow.
This blog's information was very helpful, informative, and correct. Thanks for being there to help us get informed! I'm glad to have found you on Google search!
Nancy
Posted 27 Oct 2011 at 4:34pm #
Yep ... like a good percentage of folks who searched out this webpage, broken torsion spring. Though ... looking into doing it myself. All this I'm a professional this, omg be afraid ... it's so dangerous ... that !
Then with rectom, whatever lifeform he is chirping in every now and then to shower the people here with abuse. This webpage is something else. Although to tell the truth, rectom at least provided some comic relief. Judging by the fact that most of the people typing here apparently couldn't spell or approximate anything like decent grammar to save their lives. Has given me the confidence I need to proceed. 😀
Sheesh if all these borderline illiterates can handle it. Then I damn sure better be able to as well. Or would deserve and welcome death, lol ...
Posted 29 Oct 2011 at 1:16pm #
Can'ttakeitanymore
I guess no one is perfect, huh! Some of the "I'm better than you," people, who think they should come on this site and criticize others because of their lack of education, or just don't correct typing errors because they don't care. It doesn't mean they haven't been trained to do the job they do best. These people you unjustly accuse of being illiterate are the people your hard earned money DOES NOT go to support! They are earning a living without your help, and with your attitude, they would rather laugh at you making mistake after mistake, doing a job that takes you hours to do, and they do it in 20 minutes, sometimes a little longer, depending on circumstances. Yes, I know you can do it in less time than they can, because you are "more intelligent" than they are, but, do you consider the time you spend getting the information you need to do the job? Like, measuring the spring, ( ID size, length of spring, Gauge of wire, left or right wound, how many turns to wind the spring, and do you have the tools to wind the spring?) ordering the spring and waiting for your spring, then discovering a cable is frayed, or some rollers are falling apart, etc, etc! How long has the job really taken you? The "idiot" you think is illiterate, knows more about your door than you will ever know, and he is trained to look for future trouble areas, and bring them to your attention. He will have your door working like it was new in, probably, less than an hour, and, once again, you and/or your wife, will be parking in your garage, and, most times, the same day you call for service.
Oh yes, I noticed you didn't use all the proper grammer and puntuation marks you claim makes one "borderline illiterate," and I know I'm not perfect either, but I do my job well. I promise I won't read a book, or go online to learn your job so I can criticize you, and eliminate your services from my "need to do" list!
Posted 29 Oct 2011 at 5:14pm #
Gee....I'm so interested in how it turned out for you, canttakeitanymore. Be sure to come back and let us borderline illiterates know if you still have your smug face. Funny thing is, even if you are successful in getting the correct spring, you still have to get the door properly balanced, level and adjusted. You may think you've done it all right and everyone else is just too stupid to accomplish such a feat. But time will tell. Some things don't present themselves right away. But I'm sure we'll never hear if that is the case. There is nothing wrong with pride or self confidence.....but you don't have to be an asshole.
Posted 30 Oct 2011 at 2:09pm #
I say say to anyone reading this thinking about changing your own springs, go ahead. Watch the guy on U-Tube. I still don't know how he survived and believe me he didn't get it right. Ace hardware sells springs to anyone no IQ test required. Just remind yourself you are smarter than the guys who do this work for a living when you are on your way to the emergency room. I'm sorry did I leave out a comma or spell a word wrong, damn dumb garage door guys.
Posted 30 Oct 2011 at 4:04pm #
Just got outta the hospital ... awwww shucks, lol.
Yep ... am sure someone needs to be a NASA engineer to work on a friggin garage door, no doubt about it. Takes yearssssss and yearsssssss to learn right ? Which is not to say that I'm advising people to just grab up their tools and head on into their garages. A little common sense goes a long way.
Definitely ... do your research and be safe folks. It's just obvious to me much of the apparent fear surrounding this DIY project is coming from Joe Smoe types who don't like the thought someone could do it themselves in an hour, instead of paying them a couple $100 for it. Am sure you're really concerned with our safety ... tyvm for that.
Also yep ... time is money. Some people will no doubt rather hire it out. That's each persons choice and whichever way folks coming to this webpage go about it ... Hope it works out great for them. All these "pros" though, for real. Stop with the fear mongering nonsense. Rather than learning every intimate in and out associated with a garage door as you claim. Might want to devote some of that time to signing up for a spelling contest or summin or shooting for at least 2nd grade grammar skills, lol. 😀
How the guy on youtube survived ? LOL ... there's actually a couple of them who put up similar vids for this topic. Also noticed the most popular one, the guy got showered with abuse, nasty comments and/or really stupid ones and rants and raves about impending doom to anyone who dare try this at home from industry "pros". Didn't stop him or any of the others there from casually gettiner done !
For real unwinding a spring is that dangerous to you people ?
Posted 30 Oct 2011 at 7:24pm #
I don't care what any smart ass diy-er says. The danger is real and if you want confirm this contact any emergency room in the country and ask about garage door and garage door spring injury's.
I for one know of a do it yourself-er who stuck an extension spring clear through his right shoulder and just about died. Extension springs are supposed to be a diy job.
From my experience most people know better than to mess with springs and would rather pay a stupid garage door tech a couple of hundred dollars to do the job. Some people insist on doing it themselves because gee, they are just smarter than the rest of us.
No fear mongering just the facts. Just so you know smart ass unwinding a spring is just a small part of a complete spring change.
All attempting to change springs themselves watch your lips the danger is real! The vids on u-tube are incomplete and none of the diy-er's on u-tube have the door balanced right.
The guy in cut-offs and flip flops on u-tube changing springs is lucky to be alive, and he didn't get it right..
Posted 17 Nov 2011 at 6:19pm #
Does a professional have to be the one to change a broken garage door spring? No. There are some very capable people who have the ability and know how to do it themselves.
Should a professional be the one to change the spring? In most cases yes. There are many more people who should not even attempt to do it themselves, or, even if they have the ability they may not have the time.
Changing a spring has the potential to dangerous even for the professional. If you have the ability to do it yourself, by all means, do it if you have the time and desire to. If you don't, hire someone. If you're concerned about getting ripped off, shop around, and when you do, make sure if you hire someone to do the job for you that they are licensed.
The bottom line is, you have to make your own choice based upon your own knowledge, ability and circumstances.
Posted 21 Nov 2011 at 1:38pm #
The bottom line is, there are people out there who have to put their shoes on and tie them, one at a time, else they may tie them together! NO! These people have no business installing garage door springs! Then, there are those who just know, because of their extreme intelligence, HAVE to be able to do this simple task! Even the most intelligent of these make occassional errors. In this business, there is no room for an occassional error. The mistake I have heard of most frequently is assuming there is no tension left after a spring breaks. After all, you can't lift the door, right? Make that mistake, and you will wind up in the emergency room with every bone in your hand broken, and it only takes an instant! This mistake occurs most often with 1 3/4" springs, as there is enough room to put a socket on the nut and remove it with a power tool while holding the head of the bolt with the other hand. The cone will hit your hand more times than you can count before you can pull your hand back! That isn't the only thing that can injure or maim you, but the torsion system is the one thing that deserves the most respect!
If you are one who is able to do this task yourself, by all means, procede. Most of us are busy enough that we won't miss that "one" job. There seems to always be one to replace it.
By the way, check for frayed cables and replace them if neccessary. they are sold in pairs for standard height doors, and should only be installed in pairs. also check for brackets that have been rubbing against the track. That can cause trouble at a later date. --- ounce of prevention--- Your professional usually carries these things on his service truck and most times can have your door operational the same day you call for service, not two or three days later, or whenever you can get around to it! And, when he leaves, and he has done his job properly, any other issue has been addressed, as well as the tension on the opener. Sagging opener chain can indicate a problem with the gear shaft, and needs to be repaired. Most techs have those parts on their truck also.
Good luck!
Posted 30 Dec 2011 at 9:55pm #
I am not a professional but had to replace the wire cables on a house I was flipping. I read up on how the garage door, springs, wires etc. all interact etc.. Once I understood the concept I replaced the wires no problem. When you replace the wires you have to add the tension again to the spring, so it can't be much more to replace a spring that is broken once the tension is all released. Point being if you can understand how it works and are mechanically handy, it is easy enough. If you can follow directions and then if something doesn't work as in the directions and you can figure it out great, if not then hire someone else. There is a lot of pressure and a lot of things can go wrong, but if you understand the concept then most likely you won't do something stupid which could kill you.
Posted 31 Dec 2011 at 2:27pm #
Dave, I haven't seen your door, therefore I can't make an assesment of the situation. The best reason to call a professional is that they know, and automatically look for the reason a cable has frayed, or broken. It isn't all about just replacing the cable. The most frequent cause is an improperly installed door. It is imperitive the torsion tube be level. If one side is higher than the other, the door will shift to the downhill side, and may cause the cables to rub on the track. It could also cause the cable to catch on a hinge, and snap off at a certain point, which causes wear on the cable. Improper alignment of the back hang can also cause problems. It can cause the door to be forced more to one side, causing excessive wear on brackets, hinges, and cable.
Doing the work yourself can possibly save you money, depending on what your time is worth. If you are doind a 30 minute job that takes you two or three hours to do, and you have something to do that makes you more money than the cost of the job at hand, you are wasting your time, and NOT getting a professional quality job. I can only speak for myself, but getting the job done, or getting it done right, are two different concepts. being a professional, I would check all possible causes for the cable to break. Check door alignment, excessive wear on drums, roller condition, etc. Then I would service the door, lubing all moving parts, and check for missing bolts or nuts. Before re-attaching the opener, making sure the door ballances properly, and the final step, making sure the sensitivity is set to stop or reverse the movement of the door, either in the up, or down mode.
One last thing, I don't have to relax, or rewimd the springs to do this task. You can put a two inch block under the door, use the winding bars to remove tension from the cables, rest the winding bars against the top strut, loosen the set screws in the spring cone, and the torsion shaft will be free. With the door off the floor, it gives you room to remove the cable, even on wood doors with the pin inserted from the blind side of the bracket. After replacing the cable, clamp the torsion tube with vise grips, set each drum with equal tension on the cable and tighten set screws on the drums. Now, wind ths spring just enough to free the winding bar from the winding cone, and tighten the set screws. Do this on both springs, if there are more then one spring. Never tighten the set screws more than 1/4 turn after making contact with the torsion tube! Now, balance the door. You may need to ad a 1/4 or 1/2 turn to each spring to balance the door, depending on how the door balances. After the job is done, you can put the nail back in the astragal with the door open. Always replace the cable in pairs. Unequal lengths can cause problems. WD
Posted 01 Jan 2012 at 7:09am #
Agree with Dave,
Changed the springs recently, everything appears fine. Time will tell, know I did everything I could. Wanted to post a couple tips. Like I've mentioned, I don't think much of this ridiculous fear mongering these "pros" are doing is bs, I KNOW IT IS. If you hurt yourself doing this job, then pity you. It's nowhere near as dangerous as the "pros" want everyone to believe.
They're fulla it and ya know what it is folks, lol. Same time, depending on circumstances do think there's nothing wrong with hiring a good company/pro to do this. It does take time and effort researching it, getting the stuff together and doing it, can be a real PITA, if you're only saving a couple bucks. If you're saving several hundred and know which end of screw driver to hold, plus can come in handy again later on down the road.
Either way someone goes about, hope they have great results with it. Cause it is such a friggin massive pain in the rear regardless.
Some tips ... I am not a pro, have done this all of one time recently. But wanted to share a few things I learned along the way. Am not going to type out a bk either, but hopefully somebody benefits or finds summin useful to them in these tips.
1. Research, there's plenty of decent info about this DIY proj online now. Do enough reading, to feel confident you know what you're about.
2. This is just me, but I was confident I could get accurate measurements off the springs with them in place. I wanted them off, where I could really get a good measurement. Though it's a pita ... cuz you need a set of winding bars to unwind the unbroken spring and take em down. In my case it's a good thing I did. When they were up I mistakenly thought they were 1 3/4" inner diameter springs. When I took em down, turned out to be 2" id springs.
3. Measure the dang fasteners !!! Arggggh, guess most of you won't run into this extra headache's, cuz your springs will already take 3/8" bolts and nuts. From what I've seen 3/8" seems pretty standard. In my case, the old springs and the holes in the center bracket turned out to be 1/4" !!! The new springs had 3/8 mounting holes for 3/8" bolts n nuts.
How do you measure a bolt ( or bolt hole ) ? Take a tape measure and measure across, from one edge to the other. I was not a happy camper when I measured the existing bolt holes at 1/4" and the mounting holes on the new springs turned out to be 3/8".
Anyway, like mentioned most won't have to worry about this. But might save someone headache to hear about my experience and be on the lookout. My center bracket is 1/8" think mild steel ... I just took a 3/8" colbalt drillbit and bored out those holes to be the right size for the new springs.
4. A lot of times you see those guys on youtube hammering away to get the shaft out of the end bearing plate. I almost did the same thing, The tube would slip through and I was banging away with my hand to try n force it. When my gf ( who was standing down watching me says) babe, it's caught up on the other end. Which is what was going on and if she hadn't been there. I'd have been hammering away for using dynamite before long.
Found the solution ... if the tube won't easily slide one way, it might slide the other. I ended up taking the other end of the shaft out of it's bearing plate and then the other slid out easy enough. Ya might also be able to get it to slip right on through by twisting and playing with it a bit ... no hammering necessary.
5. While you're doing it, might want to look at getting yourself some longer life springs. Ordinary springs are like 10-15k cycle springs apparently. If it's not much more and you're stuck doing it anyway might want to look up 100k cycle springs and install them now. So you don't have to f with it again for a good long time.
Anyway ... there's my 2 cents ... Happy new Yr everybody !
Posted 01 Jan 2012 at 7:18am #
lol ... hmmm, I should've skimmed, got some typo's in there, oh well.
#2 should be, I wasn't confident I could get accurate measurements with the old springs still up and ... #4 should be, the tube wouldn't slip through etc. Hopefully people get the gist of what I was trying to say. Dangit now I can't gripe at these folks over their atrocious grammar anymore !! D:
Ahhhh, had my say on this anyway, so am done. Live long and prosper folks ... If ye are worthy o course. 😉
Posted 06 Jan 2012 at 11:43am #
Called Joe Wilde Company in New Berlin, WI. They are commercial/residential and have been in business since 1945. So I felt comfortable with them.
They just finished the repairs.
Two new springs, cables, straightened everything
that was bowed/bent, and made necessary adjustments. $217 including tax.
I was extremely pleased with their work and price!!
Posted 07 Jan 2012 at 5:43pm #
You see, people? There ARE companies out there who believe you can make it without gouging people! Young Dan, You found an honest company. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THEM! That's what keeps us in business, not the few who will pay 3 or 4 times what they should have to, and tell their friends NOT to call them!
Posted 12 Apr 2012 at 3:23pm #
Anything under 200. for 2 torsion springs is cheap.Anything under 1.5 hours is reckless.I have seen these doors falling apart mechanically because these guys come in, talk big and do as little as they can.On every door there are dozens of maintenance issues that need attention and most people today don"t even know what they are.Skilled craftsmen are gone, and you can thank stupid cheap American zombie's who won't pay to have a good job but cry like a baby and blame everyone else when the door falls on their 60,000. BMW. Not one post effectively delt with how to do this job, what a joke.
Posted 15 Apr 2012 at 1:34pm #
Well, Mike, I can tell by your long list of degrees and references that you are qualified to make this comment! What I DON'T understand is your rage and contempt for the garage door proffessional. Beings that you appear to be the "expert" on this matter, why don't you "educate" us "unskilled" garage door professionals? After all, isn't that what this blog is here for, to inform each other of things to look out for and the scams?
My analysis of your situation is that you got burned, and you want to take it out on ALL professionals! I know I speak for the majority when I say the larger percent of professionals give you what you pay for. They CAN change out springs in MUCH less than an hour and a half, and give the door a complete tune up, total inspection of ALL hardware, and make sure your opener is reversing as it is supposed to, up, and down. Making sure the sensitivity is set properly so it doesn't double your door in case of spring failure. In an hour and a half, a professional can perform the service required, as well as replace nearly ALL the hardware on your door that can fail and need replacement. What slows us down most is when someone has tightned the set screws so tight it is hard to remove drums or spring cones over the distorted shaft. There are times all we can do is replace the shaft, which takes a little longer. Most professionals won't charge you for the extra time they must spend on the job, other than replacing worn or damaged parts.
$200.00? It all depends on where you live. Some spring replacements are less than 200, and some are more.
Oh yes, you mentioned not one post dealt with this job. Did you mean "job," as in trade in general, or a specific "job"?
Oh, Mikie, did you fly through a job and have a section fall on someones car? WOW! Too bad!
From a "skilled craftsman," still around! (amoung many)
Posted 18 Jun 2012 at 6:43pm #
Well, I just finished this whole thread. Very entertaining. I came here to see if I got a good quote because my spring broke this morning. I'm so grateful for all the information provided by you all. Turns out I called the right guy the first time and it was the sticker on my garage door with their number. I didn't know what to do. Single, female, lives alone.
He quoted me $145 with warranty and was done in approximately 35 minutes. I have a small garage door...I think he said 8 by 8 but I could be wrong. He's been doing this for 23 years and all his limbs...lol. He told me quite a few stories of ER visits his friends had. They even got me in before the end of the day because I needed my car (I have cancer treatments I needed to get to). They made it work for me. They are on Angie's List and told me to give them a review because they get more business by good word of mouth. I'm very satisfied.
Thanks, everyone!
Posted 30 Jun 2012 at 8:06am #
Me again ... I still despise all you fear mongering "pros" !!! 😛
Well ... not really, but figured why not start this post with some pazzaz. Am still not a garage door pro though 6 months and new diy torsion springs going strong. IN YOUR FACE PROS !!!
Still know beyond a doubt the "OMG you'll kill yourself" doing this yourself is retarded bs. If someone does, then they didn't stand a chance in life anyway, sooner they croak, the better for the genepool.
Lady above ... glad you're happy with work and price. From hazy memory, $145 bucks for a 1 spring door isn't bad, most area's ... going rate I think. For a job you won't have to worry about there again for 8yrs ( hopefully more.) sounds well worth it.
* Reason I posted: They sell lubricant spray esp for torsion springs at any decent fixer upper type store, lowes, home depot, probably even friggin walmart. Couple bucks a can, spray your torsion springs once a month or every few. Takes all of a couple mins to do and is supposed to greatly increase the life on the suckers. Couple bucks, couple mins ... add a couple yrs. Sounds like a winner to me, shrugs.
(continued teasing of garage "pros" everywhere.)
Garage door installers are obviously like every other trade out there. Need to make a living .. Though also like every trade out there (imo). Majority aren't the least shy about cornholing folks and over charging when they have ya over a barrel.
Come on Fella's admit it, if ya get called out for an estimate on broken torsion springs and see there's a car trapped in the garage. Price automatically goes up $50-100 bucks ... right ? Eh ? eh .. ? Don't lie ... 😀
Posted 30 Jun 2012 at 5:19pm #
Happy to hear your having such great luck with your dyi system. However, 6 months isn't really a very long time. Hopefully, you can get 7 to 9 years out if it depending on the quality of spring you got with it.
Yes, a lot of pros are a bunch of fear mongerers! And it drives me absolutely nuts. I try to educate my customers the best I can while I'm in their home. I explain, in detail, how the torsion system works and what to look for when you do have a broken spring. Sometimes, its not as simple as replacing the spring alone. You have to look over all the moving parts! The bearings are a very vital part of your system. I've been to at least 3 homes where they had changed the springs two or three times and never changed the bearings. When the bearings get old or worn and stop turning, they cut the torsion tube. This is not a fun fix!
My point is, yes, you are going to pay someone what sounds like an aweful lot of money to do the job for you. But, hopefully, they are competant technicians and can inspect, adjust and lubricate the other parts that you wouldn't think of. So, it's okay to hire a pro. Shop around and stay with them while they are in your garage. Make sure they check out all your moving parts and lubricate everything. The downside to hiring a pro is that you are putting your trust into a complete stranger....some of whom are complete scumbags. If something doesn't sound right then challenge it. It should be okay to ask questions. If they don't have the answers...kick them out!
I live in Tucson, Arizona and the going rate here for a pair of high cycle (30,000 cycle) torsion springs is about $250.00 installed. You SHOULD get a five year warranty with that.
So....how long did you say the warranty was on your dyi springs?
Posted 02 Jul 2012 at 12:57pm #
Can't take it anymore, do you actually have a job? Are you making a decent living at it? Are you trying to get into the garage door and opener, sales and service business? Willing to re-locate? ----- Naw, I wouldn't want anyone with your attitude working for me!
Yeah, I know. You are just having fun at others expense. All my life I've seen bullies like you picking on others who you believe to be inferior to your superior intelligence. Who do you pick on when a diy project goes wrong? When you help someone because you know so much, and something goes wrong, will you be a diy lawyer also?
How DO you make your living? Probably never tell for fear of being chastised. Paybacks ARE hell! And, yes, I DO charge more for emergency service, as all service related businesses do. But I don't rape my customer. I assume you would, being that you brought it up!
As for Josh, 20 or 30 k cycles aren't really that much of an upgrade. A lot of homes have 2 or more children, and no one ever uses the front door. That door may go up and down ten or more times a day, every day. Between 3 and 4 thousand times a year. If you are going to upgrade at all, do nothing less than one hundred thousand cycle springs.
Most spring manufactures only warrant a spring for one year, even high cycle springs. If there is a flaw in the material it will normally show up within a year. However, I would have no problem guaranteeing a spring for 5 years. More than that, I would install a counter on the machine, because it isn't the amount of time that breaks the spring, but the number of times it flexes.
Posted 03 Jul 2012 at 12:11am #
Warren,
20 to 30 thousand cycles is actually about the perfect cycle life. By the time you put 30 thousand cycles on a door the rest of the moving parts are ready to be replaced as well. I've seen the 100 thousand cycle springs and I think they sometimes cause more problems than anything else. I know you would understand these numbers so I'll tell you about a job I went to recently. I took down a pair of 283 x 2 x 62 springs. They were installed on an 18 x 7 steel front steel back door with rustic overlay about 6 years ago. Unfortunately, the springs were so heavy and the company who sold this lady the door didn't use a heavy gauge or solid tube. Nope, Overhead Door used a regular tube which warped so bad the it was actually causing her opener, a Liftmaster 3/4 hp belt drive, to jerk so violently that it would shut itself down. It also wore out the bearings and drums. I had to replace the entire torsion system (with 4 smaller springs). The door weighted 430 lbs. They actually should have installed a chain drive ats opener with these doors but replacing the torsion system made the door run smoothly and hopefully bought her some time before she has to replace the opener.
Anyway, my point is...100 thousand cycle springs are ideal if not absurd in size. And I preach this to everyone I train..BEARINGS, BEARINGS, BEARINGS! Bearings do not get enough attention when springs are being changed. And the bearings on most doors, by my estimate, tend to last between 30 and 50 thousand cycles. So go ahead and put on super high cycle springs and watch the rest of the door fall apart around them.
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I'm striving to be the best I can at my job. I sincerely believe that I should be the last garage door guy my customers have to call....for 15 years or so anyway.
Posted 03 Jul 2012 at 12:20am #
Oh and P.S.
3 to 4 thousand times a year? A two car garage should open on average 4 times a day. 6 times a day, 365 days a year is only 2190 cycles. This is an absurd estimate. Also, yes cycle life is important. but one thing people don't take into consideration is the fact the most garage doors spend their time closed which means that the spring is wound 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 turns for more than 23.5 hours a day. I will not be convinced that this has no effect on spring life.
Posted 04 Jul 2012 at 2:27am #
Yes, Josh. It is somewhat absurd! But, I have replaced springs, 10,000 cycle, that should have lasted 6 to 8 years with extreme use. These springs lasted approximately 2 years. They told me no one ever uses the front door. They didn't even know where the key was. Three kids and two cars, all entering and exiting at different times, and each cycling the door twice a day. 20 or 30 K springs would have been ideal, but they didn't want to pay the cost. They said the kids would soon leave the nest and return to normal.
100 K cycle springs aren't even practical for a residence. It would require at least .331 X 2 5/8" X 64", times 2, to balance a 430# door, with solid shaft. Sometimes I exagerate the situation, sorry, but it isn't the pressure on the springs that breaks them. That's why they design them for 10K, 20K, etc. Tension dosen't come into play. Example, bend a wire and hang a ten pound weight on it. It won't pull the bend clear out of it, and it will never break. Take the same wire and bend it back and forth several times, and it will break. It's the friction in the wire that causes the failure. The movement is so minute in a spring that it takes a good many cycles to cause failure, not the tension. Tension on the spring from the door being closed most of the time CAN cause the spring to lose some of the ippt, and may need to have a 1/4 or 1/2 turn added to balance the door. I usually add some when I wind them just because I know it will need it. Usually just enough to lift the door off the floor, but not enough to open it without help. Just a few cycles will relax the springs and they usually balance without further adjustment.
I could be erroneous in my understanding of what happens in a spring. I offer you the phone number of Holmes Spring, 480-598-6584, or Napoleon Spring Works, 419-445-1010.
Posted 20 Jul 2012 at 2:00pm #
Repairman just left. $300 to replce two springs on an 18 foot door. I live in northern New Jersey. I'm happy.
Posted 21 Jul 2012 at 9:55pm #
You can't fire me Warren I quit ! Errrr ... well technically you can't refuse to hire me, as nobody ever asked you for a job champ. 😀
And no ... do NOT have any plans to get into the garage door field. Though will be changing my own and any friends/relations if they run into torsion spring woes.
Can say w/o a doubt a diyer that can figure out which end of a screw driver is which can competently replace a broken torsion spring. Despite what all the fear mongering "pros" around the web have to say about the project, it's not rocket science by no stretch.
The "pros" spreading all this nonsense YOU'LL DIE IF YOU TRY THIS !!! Are fulla crap. Also thinks it's comical that they try to make replacing a set of torsion springs out to be some incredibly complex life threatening ordeal.
Ooooo I replace some torsion springs and lived to tell about it folks ! Didn't even have to go to 20yrs of garage door specialist training or anything ! Some online research, common household tools and a set of springs from ebay. Yay n yippie ! 🙂
Posted 21 Jul 2012 at 11:33pm #
Can'ttakeitanymore,
you only assume everyone thinks it is an extremely dangerous job. It CAN be, if you don't pay attention, and use the proper tools, (winding bars!) Winding bars aren't in everyones kitchen junk drawer. I would bet that you didn't have these tools before you took on your own spring change. Using screwdrivers to wind springs is nothing short of stupid! The point I have been trying to make people aware of is that most professionals automatically assess the condition of the door when they come on the job. If the cables are frayed, this is the time to change them. Then, we find the cause of the damage. We also check bearings, worn rollers, broken hinges, missing bolts or screws. We check the alignment of the door. Not being aligned properly can cause drag or frayed cables.
Not all "professionals" do all this. They only do what they came to do. Others will claim you have worn parts to sell more service and run the bill up. A professional knows how a door should operate and what it will take to make it do so. All they should do is assess and advise, and let the customer make the decision to replace worn parts after showing them the difference.
The LAST thing to do is to check the tension on the operator. More doors have been damaged because the tension has been set so extreme that if the spring is broken and they don't notice it, the open force can buckle the top section and ruin it, trying to open the door.
Canttakeitanymore, I'm sure you are accomplished at what you do, and you don't seem to want anyone to know what that is, but experience is still the best teacher. I would wager that any professional garage door tech could make you look very amature at a one on one door repair. It isn't "just replace the spring!" I really don't care if you do your own, or your friends, but don't encourage people who ONLY know which end of a screwdriver is which, to do spring replacement! If that's all they know, they WILL get hurt! It isn't for everyone.
What really gets the hair up on the back of my neck is the arrogant a__ that tries to put down a whole industry, and just happened to be successful at his own diy project. Just because you were able to do this without any problems doesn't mean "anyone" can do it!
Posted 08 Aug 2012 at 5:49pm #
I would love if a few people in the garage door repair industry, like Warren, or Glen, can answer a few questions I have, and comment on our experience with a garage door company.
Questions:
1) After the price (in parts and labor) of replacing a pair of torsion springs, what are reasonable additional prices for replacing a) 2 cable drums, and b) “end bearing with bracket”?
2) Are drums and end bearings often sold together commercially, like a set?
3) Are the less expensive $16 to $27 drums sold on sites like garagedoor1.com and ddmGarageDoors.com too cheap and inferior? (They also have more high-end parts.)
4) If the old drums make rattling sounds and rotate when shaken, are they signs the drums need replacing? Or could the technician purposely loosen something to cause the rattling and rotating too?
5) How frequently does a technician perform services without giving a price beforehand, whether on purpose, or just being forgetful?
6) If a company agrees to a partial refund, about how long should it take for the check to arrive in our mailbox?
I feel like we had a bad experience with a small company, and want to know if others agree before I consider criticizing this company’s name to Yelp.com, BBB, and the local licenser/ contractor/ attorney general’s office. We got a phone quote from (the owner?) Jon to replace 2 torsion springs for $199 in parts and labor. We ended up with a bill with taxes over $570. Here’s the long story if you have some time:
My sister was the one that interacted with the technician, who apparently never told his name, but seemed friendly, talkative, and gave, I guess, good advice on maintaining a garage door, such as lubricate twice a year, and not with WD 40.
Halfway through, the technician said the drums and bearings need replacing. He showed my sister how shaking the old drum in his hand caused part of it to rotate and rattle, while a new one from his truck didn’t, so my sister told me she consented to replacing the drums, but not the bearings. Somehow, no prices were mentioned, but my sister assumed it would not cost a whole lot more. She was shocked, after the job was completed, when the bill was revealed to be $524 before tax and over $570 with tax: $199 for 2 torsion springs, $88 a drum, $98 end bearing with bracket, and $138 residential labor. But she didn’t complain and just signed a check.
The next day Jon called us to find out if we were satisfied with them. My sister said she thought the price was too high. Jon looked at our invoice and said that we shouldn’t have been charged the extra $138 residential labor, but the rest were right. My sister told him she didn’t know the bearings would be replaced, and Jon responded that their company buys the drums and bearings together as a set.
Then I got on the phone with Jon and told him I could find a pair of drums online for just $16. He claimed those cheaper drums would break down in a few years, and the drums his company use are heavy duty, commercial grade that aren’t sold online to the general public. I said I didn’t believe him, because I read that drums rarely need replacing, so why can’t they use the standard $16 ones. He countered that it’s not true that they rarely need replacing. I then asked him to give me the exact name of the drums his company uses, and he couldn’t give it to me. I had found dozens of people online saying they replaced their torsion springs for $140, $200, $300, but could only find one page mentioning what drums cost in parts and labor. http://www.HABProGarageDoors.com/garage-door-torsion-springs/faq near the bottom page said drums should reasonably cost $20-30 each in parts and labor, and also the same for a kind of bearing, but maybe it’s not the type used near the drums. I’m not sure since some bearings cost less than $2 each and others much more. The site in addition said drums don’t need replacing often, and it seems true since few people online mention them.
Jon said we were quoted the price before the drums and bearings were replaced, but we corrected him that it wasn’t true. He said he would later have a talk with the technician. Then Jon asked my sister what price she had expected to pay. She said somewhere over $300 total. He suggested only charging us $300 even since we weren’t happy. My sister agreed. Then Jon told me at this low price, he would have to absorb the cost out of his own pocket, and at that particular moment I almost believed him. What I should have told him was, since he admitted that their company initially overcharged us by $138—and it wouldn’t have been caught if we hadn’t complained about the high price—he should deduct an additional 138 from the new total to be fair. I mean 524-138=386-138=248. But my sister already agreed to the $300.
After the conversion, I looked closely at the new drums, which had written on it “Torque Force D400-144 R:3.” I figured out from that and a photo online that it’s standard 12’ drums, available online to consumers for $20-$27 a pair. It’s not the 7’ standard kind that are $16, as I had assumed since our garage door is 7’ tall by 16’ but it’s still not near $88. It seemed deceptive when Jon said these drums are heavy duty, and not the kind available online that would soon break down. And he probably didn’t know the technician used the 12’ instead of 7’ drums.
To be fair to the technician, he had said he brought his wife to the hospital the previous day, so he may not have been clear-headed, to have neglected mentioning prices before replacing the extra parts, and to overcharge/(double charge?) the residential service fee. I don’t know. But there seemed to be too many issues involving price/money in our communications with this company.
The repairs, which took 35 minutes, were done 7/19 on a Thursday, our check cashed 7/23 on Monday, but we haven’t gotten a refund check yet 8/7, 2 ½ weeks later. With the new drums and bearings, I can’t discern any differences, like the door moving quieter or smoother, now compared to a couple months ago. Although we haven’t noticed anything going wrong with the garage door since the repairs, am I reasonable in thinking we had a bad encounter with this company? Or are many or all of the price issues acceptable/explainable? I’ll check back in a week or two to this page to read your responses, and report if we received the check in the mail. Thanks for reading.
Posted 09 Aug 2012 at 12:00am #
Unhappy,
It seems to me that you were ripped off and lied to. The drums and bearings are not sold as a set...ever. And yes, the drums you found online are probably perfectly fine for your door. I've never heard of any drums that rattle when shaken unless the technician has loosened the set screws to the end of the thread. The truth is, the drums don't do a whole lot except give the cable something to wrap around when the door is opening. They do support the weight of your door but the only time you need heavy duty drums is when your door exceeds the maximum recommended weight of the drum. This is normally about 225 to 250 lbs per drum for a total door weight of 450 to 500 lbs. Also, when you have two springs on a door the drums will last an eternity because the springs are counteratcting each other. What I mean is, your springs stretch out as they wind up. So if your spring is on the right side of the door is is putting pressure on the torsion tube, drum, and bearing on the left. What this does is grind the back of the drum into the bearing behind it wearing out the drum and the bearing. Two springs counteract each other saving alot of wear and tear on the drums and bearings on both sides.
As far as prices. The technician should NEVER install any parts on your door without permission and a clear understanding of the cost of the parts. I do a complete rebuild on a door where I install two springs, replace the bearings on each end as well as the center bearing between the spings, replace the drums, the cables and all the rollers with nylon ball bearing rollers. The package is $499.95 and the labor is included, unless it is after hours. Then I do charge and additional $65.00 service fee. I also give a five year warranty on all parts installed.
As far as Jon telling you that he will have to absorb the cost out of his own pocket, I can assure you that this is not true. I would rather not tell what my cost are but I'd have to guess that if he only replaced springs, end bearings and drums his cost is less than $100.00. While there are additional costs to consider such as advertising, fuel, insurance and payroll I'd say his costs were still less than $200.00. Now he is in business to make money so if he made $100.00 profit of of you I'd say that's rather fair. The original price is in fact absurd!
Josh
Posted 09 Aug 2012 at 1:05am #
Unhappy
I can understand your concern. The only thing right about this job was the price for spring replace for two springs.That price should include labor. If the tech found other problems, they should be brought to your attention before doing the work. If the set screws were loosened by the tech, then showed the drums spun on the shaft, they should! They won't after they are tightened.Drums and bearings seldom need replacement. The bearings don't cost more than $3.00 unless they change out the endplate that encorporates the bearing, but can be purchased seperatley. I have replaced drums that have the notch for the cable broken, but I usually have a used pair of drums on my truck. As they don't wear out, I use them and replace them at no charge to my customer. If I am there to replace the springs, I have to remove the drum to change them, so there is no extra labor charge. Drums are purchased, usually in pairs, not including bearings. Cables are always sold in pairs, as they have to be matched in length.
There are several drum manufacturers. Overhead Door, and Crawford have their own brands, and are not compatible with other brands because of unique diameters. If you replace one, you must do the other also. Most door manufacturers use a standard size, depending on size and weight of the door. 7' or 8' high doors use (common size) WD4, or WD4X drums,for example. The WD4 is good for about 190 lbs each, or a 380 pound door. WD4X is used for a heavier door, up to 550 pounds total door weight. These drums are about 4 inches diameter. If they put a larger drum on your door, they have drastically changed the door's balance. Garage doors and the parts they use are engineered to be a near perfect fit. If a door company uses something other than exact replacement parts, they can really interfere with the functionality and life of the door, or related parts. The springs are an exception. A spring of a different wire size and length can be used, but the inch pounds per turn must be the same. (IPPT)
If there is an inferior quality drum, or any other garage door part, I'm not aware of them. Now, there are a few garage door manufacturers that, in my opinion, produce some inferior product, that I refuse to purchase and install, but I can't mention these brands. I wish I could! They know who they they are, and I believe there have been some improvements made.
I believe Jon was making excuses for the tech. I believe they are one of the companies that low ball to get the job, then "find" things wrong with your door that really are not, just to jack up the price. These companies instruct the techs on how to do this. Too many people just aren't aware of anything out of their own profession or are too busy to question the job. They just write a check and are happy their garage door is working again.
I hope this answers your questions. I didn't come on this site to be the "expert," but I can't help but express my opinion when I believe good people are being taken advantage of. One other thing, I would always question parts they show me as being worn out, after they say they replaced them. Show me the condition, and compare it with a new one, before removing it. Then I know it was on my door, not another one he replaced down the street! WD
Posted 09 Aug 2012 at 11:43pm #
[quote comment="70738"]Jeffrey,
Where did you get your crawford springs from? One of my torsion springs broke and it turns out it's a crawford.
A company this morning said they would need to change everything incl. tracks, which makes a whole new door cheaper.
Another company wants to convert to standard and change springs and drums etc. for $300.[/quote]
Posted 10 Aug 2012 at 12:34am #
Jeffrey,
Crawford has undergone several changes over the years. If your door has a kind of cage over the drum that the spring anchors to, and the winding cone is toward the center of the door, you have a very old door and spring system. These springs can be replaced, but as I recall, the end of the wire has to be heated with a torch and bent to resemble the old spring. They have to hook into holes in the drum and anchor bracket. These are best left to the pro as most have equipment to perform these tasks. I have replaced them in the past, but around 25 years ago. I don't believe the price you got of $300 was out of line to upgrade the system. (Depending on where you reside) However, what is the general condition of your door? Will it need some major repair to keep it operating, and does it warrant the cost of the upgrade and repairs? Maybe it would be the time to replace the complete door. They come with hardware of the times, and parts will be available for many years to come. If the door is different than I described, the system should be upgradeable for a reasonable price. Should be able to just change drums and a new spring anchor bracket. Probably upper bearing plates, left and right. Should be able to slide the torsion shaft either way to remove old springs and the anchor system. You might have to be a little inventive to mount the bearing plates. Most of them have an angle broke in them with holes for lag screws or bolts, and you should be able to find a plate that will bold to the track support. That, with the angle lag screwed to the door jamb will make it rigid and the tube should slide back and forth fairly easy. The rest is easy. The instructions you recieve with your replacement springs should take you from this point to completion. Measuring the old spring is very important. the length of 10 coils will give the spring co information they need to determine wire size, and they need the inside diameter and overall length to determine the inch lbs per turn. (IPPT) They need all this information to determine the spring you need. It is a must that both springs are measured completely. Sometimes two different sizes are used to come up with the correct combined IPPT's required to balance your door. I hope this information has helped, and I really would appreciate a report as to whether or not my assumtion was correct, and if so, if this information as usefull. WD
Posted 10 Aug 2012 at 2:43am #
Garage doors = rocket science,,,, hahahhhaaahhh, = consumer drop your pants. These garage door guys make a killing, however, they pay their techs peanuts. Enough said. Oh, the garage spring can kill you,,,, blahh blaahh blaaah, that's why they pay their tech's $10 an hour to risk their lives while they rake in the dough... next time you have a tech come to your house, ask him how much they make,,, nada, zip,, but,, yet, they supposedly risk their lives to replace your garage spring, what a joke.
Posted 12 Aug 2012 at 9:06pm #
Hey, Tip! What'r you smok'n? Sounds like some pretty good stuff!
Get a life___ move on. Dude!
(Probably a disgruntled ex employee who was making more than you deserved!)
Posted 15 Aug 2012 at 10:48pm #
[quote comment="70740"] I hope this information has helped, and I really would appreciate a report as to whether or not my assumtion was correct, and if so, if this information as usefull.
WD[/quote]
Warren, your info was useful, and in the meantime I did think further about the issue and we decided to actually replace the complete garage door. With some maintenance the current wood door would have survived a few more years, but it was too much little stuff that it ultimately warranted a new door. Paid around $500 and plan to put it in myself.
Compared to custom fab springs, plus the time to find them somewhere, and fiddling them in... and in a few years having the same issue again when they break again.. Just noticed today the bottom of my current door is uneven (filler strip cut at an angle), not sure yet how to keep the mice out with a steel door on uneven bottom. Didn't measure, but it's quite a chunk. Maybe two chunks.
The $300 I found reasonable, too, although the markup on their parts was a bit much. It was (or still is, as the new door is still in the package) a Crawford spring without the cage you described, the end near the drum is just held in place by notch and some plate or bracket, if I remember right.
Posted 16 Aug 2012 at 1:45am #
Uwe
Since the overhead door evolved, there has been more ideas and designs than I am even aware of. Anyone who has been in the business any length of time has seen a good many different designs, and they seemed to change from one area to another. I've seen cable on pulleys directed to the wall, where there have been boxes of rocks to balance the door. Probably got the idea from the iron window weights used to keep windows from falling without a prop under them.
You seem to be a diy'er, maybe do a little concrete work? I have cut the concrete from the corners back from the center a foot or two, removed the old concrete from under the door, and poured a flat slab under the door. With it cut in a V you can take the new concrete back gradually so you don't have a sharp bump.
The advantage of having wood doors was scribing the door bottom to the floor. Dissadvantage, the door would eventually "smile" at you! Some would laugh out loud!
Good luck with your new door. WD
Posted 21 Aug 2012 at 2:24am #
My wife and I have owned our own garage door company since 1986. We both strongly agree that garage door repairs should really be left to a pro, especially anything related to the springs, cables, drums, bottom brackets, etc. I realize that there are some DIY-ers that are fully capable of replacing their own springs but those are rare occasions. Ever since springs became more readily available online, we have received so many calls where we have to go to correct a DIY-er's work, whether it be due to ordering the wrong sized springs, not resetting the cable drums properly, putting the springs on backwards, or damaged doors and/or openers. Seriously, I strongly suggest hiring a pro to do this kind of work. And you should always call around and compare prices from different companies-there's a lot of companies out there looking to rip off innocent people. Keep in mind that prices vary in the area that you live in (We are located in Arizona and a fair price for a spring change is around $150-180, which should include a complete inspection and lube of the door and opener).
Posted 21 Aug 2012 at 2:50am #
Also, keep in mind that many companies charge a service call just to come out to your house. It's also a good idea to ask if the total price for any repair includes the service call or if that will be an additional charge. Don't let a company try to up-sell you either, esp if the door is fairly new. For example, there are two companies here in Arizona that are notorious for trying to sell you parts you don't need. Recently, we had a customer that called because the springs had pulled away from the wall. The door was only a year old but when the tech arrived, he told the customer that he could not do the work unless the client paid $300 to replace 1 year old springs (the door is maybe opened once or twice a day). The tech's reasoning? He couldn't wind the "old" springs because of a liability policy his company had since they could break as he was winding them, possibly injuring him. I am very well aware that old springs can break as they are being re-wound and I'm sure we pros have all been there at some point and yes, it is startling to say the least but you can avoid injury by properly winding the springs. So long story short, do your HW and don't let anyone try to up-sell you. If it seems fishy, tell the tech to leave. Any professional garage door company will not require you to sign any contract or pay before the repair is complete and should be willing to show you old and new parts without trying to "force" you to agree to any repair.
Posted 22 Aug 2012 at 6:58pm #
Thank you very much, Josh and Warren, for replying to my message about the company that replaced a pair of drums and end bearings with brackets, in additional to the springs. Now I know they weren’t honest with us.
I am still not certain if the drums replacement was unnecessary or actually needed. We had the garage doors for 14 years, never lubricated anything, and its possible one torsion spring was broken for months before we recognized it was broken, not sure, which may contribute to the drums breaking, if they did break. But this company was deceitful to us on so many other things, and you guys say the rattling sound when the drum is shaken is unfamiliar to you.
There were few signs that we would encounter problems with this company, except it has a lot of online ads. It has been operating about 10 yrs, is a BBB member with 1 complaint the last 3 yrs, is on Angie’s List according to their site, and on Service Magic, only several people gave 1 or 2 stars overall out of 200+ reviews. A few reviewers did think they charge too high prices: One had 4 pulleys replaced at $36 each; and another was 4 springs + 8 pulleys + labor + Tax = $867. Are these really bad prices? A lot of other customers likely had no idea they paid too much or didn’t care.
Somehow, we were the unlucky ones that had a truly bad experience with them. Maybe the tech thought my sister, who, like me knew little about garage doors, was too easy a target that he decided this was one of the few times to gouge a customer, and the owner covered for him by continually making untrue statements to us afterward.
They still haven’t sent the approximately $250 refund (since the owner said they would only charge us $300, while depositing our $572 check). We’ll wait a total of 2 months, call them again, and if they don’t send a refund or they say they have no record of agreeing to the refund, then most likely complain to BBB. We’ll probably post reviews on other sites like Yelp, ComplaintsBoard, and RipOffReport, just waiting so we can report if they refund some money as agreed or not.
On an unrelated topic of overcharging, a Dateline hidden camera show aired a few days ago, where it had plumbing techs from 6 companies come fix an apparently malfunctioning equipment (don’t remember what it was). All 6 companies tried to get the female homeowner to agree to replace parts when they weren’t necessary; they just needed to reconnect a loose hose/ pipe. I had no idea there is such a high number of greedy liars in the contractor business. I’m glad there are some honest individuals like Warren, Glen, and Josh that write here about garage door repairs.
Posted 22 Aug 2012 at 7:06pm #
Warren,
I think you said, if you on the rare occasion had to replace a pair of drums for a customer, you usually had an extra used pair in your truck and don’t charge for them. But if you only had a new pair on your truck, how much would you charge in parts? I want to know, in your view, about how much we were unreasonably overcharged at $88 a pair of drums and $98 end bearings with bracket, not even taking into account the extra $138 residential labor fee, which the owner admitted shouldn’t be charged.
I recently remembered the tech did align the sensors better, which was good. Should there have been a charge for that, or just part of the replacing torsion springs package? The tech also I think mentioned a kind of warranty, but it wasn’t written on the receipt, which he showed my sister on his I Pad, and also e-mailed a copy to her as a PDF file.
Posted 24 Aug 2012 at 2:38am #
Unhappy,
to be frank with you, I never carry new drums, as most used drums I have seen show absolutely no wear or cracks. I keep a couple of pairs of "like new" drums on my truck. These are without paint or dry wall mud, and look like they have never been used. I also have head plates with bearings from extra hardware boxes I have acquired over the years, because distributers have shorted boxes occassionally, and have given me extra's so I will always have anything I might need on my truck. When I need to replace these items for a customer, I'll charge a nominal fee, maybe 15 bucks for the pair. Usually, I change these items without charge, and I tell my customer and show them the old part and tell them there is no charge for that item. I guarantee it will bring more money back to you than any other kind of advertising. Your customer will tell everyone he knows how you treated him. I have had people write the check for the amount billed, and hand me a fifty and tell me thankyou! And, you know what? I can't tell you how it makes me feel when I do something a little extra for my customer, and they show their gratitude, in many different ways. It all goes back to the days of business with a handshake, and trusting people.
I charge a reasonable fee for spring replacement. I get as much information as I can from my customer and generally know what to expect when I get there. My fee includes parts and labor. No hidden charges and only will be changed if I find a problem I didn't expect. This is ALWAYS discussed with the customer BEFORE the work is done. I always check the condition of the door before I begin the work. If I need to change anything with pressure on it, I want to do it BEFORE I wind the springs. I check the cables, rollers, and bearings. I check for broken or worn hinges. Before I leave, I check the open, and close sensitivity on the operator. If there is more slack in the chain than should be there, I check the shaft on the sprocket. If the opener has undue wear, I will bring it to the attention of the home owner, and give him the option of repairing it now, or call me back in a week or two. Before I leave, I lube all moving parts. All the service I provide in a simple spring replacement, or whatever I am there for, is just something I do, and only give them a compettive price for the initial service. It takes only minutes. Usually not much longer than it takes them to find the check book and write the check. It means the door will operate like, or better, than it did when it was new!
Aligning sensors and adjusting the sensitivity adjustments is just something a tech should do without a pat on the back. It's part of taking care of your customer, and giving him reason to recommend you to friends, and to call you if he ever needs your service again.
In my opinion, I believe he wouldn't be out of line to charge maybe fifty (maybe a little high) bucks. So, yeah, I would say he overcharged you about $274.00, and I'm assuming this is above the charge for spring change, which usually includes springs and labor. I just scrolled back to your original post. The $199 should have been labor and springs, combined. Should not have been extra for labor.
Alex's post is pretty much in line with how I operate. Prices are similar to Idaho. Sadly, in this business you don't always get what you pay for! WD
Posted 24 Aug 2012 at 2:59am #
I just thought of a job I recently did. The customer told me she got a price from "Overhead Door." They were a little high, and when che called them back and told them what I would charge, they told her to be sure she got a written warranty they would last 10 years. I assured her no one in their right mind would make that kind of warranty, but that I would, if she would let me put a counter on the opener, at an additional cost to her, and if the springs didn't cycle more than 10 thousand cycles in 10 years, I would replace them free. She figured it up and figured it would be more than 10 thousand cycles for her family. She should have called them back and told them to do the job, with a writtem guarantee!
We have no way to know how many times a day these doors will cycle. The suppliers will only warranty a spring for a year.
Posted 24 Aug 2012 at 11:58am #
I read these comments and have to laugh. I have over 30 years experience working with overhead doors and openers. Having worked for the largest garage door company under one roof in the U.S. as a production installer and later running a division for them. I left in 1996 to start my own business taking with me the experience of having worked as a production installer and a manger.
I really don't care if DIY'ers want to change springs. It is important to mention that most people can't even recognize a broken spring. I hear all kinds of things like I have a broken cable or my door will only open about a foot. Most if not all of the time homeowners try to tell me what's wrong with their garage door but 99 times out of 100 they are totally wrong. I have had many people insist their springs are not broken only to find out they are indeed broken.
I would also like to add that anyone telling you garage doors and springs are not dangerous is a fool. Just contact any emergency room in this country and ask about garage door and spring injuries.
I believe garage door injuries are second only to lawn mower injuries.
Some things are just best left to professionals. Most intelligent people won't risk getting hurt for a couple of hundred dollars.
I have seen the U-tube videos of home owners and even some so called legit garage door companies trying to show DIY'ers how to change springs. These video's are incomplete and in some cases down right dangerous!
Posted 24 Aug 2012 at 9:38pm #
You know, Glen, we aren't fooling them anymore! LOL!
Actually, I've known one person who had a pretty bad accident induced by thinking he was smart enough to "do it himself." He was a truck mechanic, and had air tools. He didn't think past the fact there were two springs, and one was still wound. It was an inch and three quarter spring, which allowed him to get a socket on the nut. While holding the bolt with his other hand, he proceded to remove the bolts through the anchor bracket. With an air impact, the second nut came off verry quickly. He told me the cone and bolts hit him more times than he could count before he could pull his hand back. Broke every bone in his hand.
Any other accidents, I can't validate. Only things I've heard. I do know though, the only way a spring could impale someones arm, or other body part, would have to be from winding the spring backwards. Otherwise, the leading edge would be going the wrong direction.
I'm not saying door repair is safe, or that there is no need for caution, or that you don't have to think things through before acting, because you do! Remember, for every action, there is a re-action! It's the re-action that can kill you.
The purpose of this site is to HELP people, not scare them. It's fine to keep people aware that danger exists. Every hunter knows everytime he goes into the woods, there is danger of being mistaken for game, or falling over a ledge. They still hunt. Scaring them won't stop them from hunting. We can help keep people safe with good advice. We can keep people aware of the scam artists. (Too bad they don't ask us before they get scammed!) People doing it themselves won't break us. I've never heard of an auto repair shop going broke because of shade tree mechanics. Same with us. Matter of fact, I have been called to "fix" doors that were repaired be DIY'ers. Money in my pocket!
So, Glen, chances people who you "get after" don't live in your neighborhood, and you aren't going to get work from them anyway. Let them do it themselves. Maybe we can help by giving good advice, rather than trying to keep them from taking work away from us. Who knows, maybe they will call YOU for assistancce, when they have a problem they can't handle! WD
Posted 25 Aug 2012 at 12:16am #
I really don't care if anyone wants to change their own springs. And we don't care to help the one's who do and screw it up for one reason or another. I'm tired of the B.S being spouted on this site by know it all morons who put down professionals. If you are determined to do it yourself, please disregard all the good advise on this site and head down to Ace hardware for your springs. You may in fact save a few bucks but you may also end up in the emergency room at you local hospital. And no this is not fear mongering! My "neighborhood" Warren is one of the largest metropolitan area's in the U.S. with millions of homes and businesses. DIY'ers don't effect our business and truthfully we don't miss or need their work. Many of the door companies in our area are nothing more than unqualified scam artists, ripoffs and con men, We repair their sub standard work all the time. Folks have no problem finding our well known and well respected business after they have been had.
Posted 25 Aug 2012 at 1:03pm #
If you guys watch the youtube video that the DIY-er put up (I think it's Gary Davis DIY clinic or something to that extent) you can tell at the end that his door ain't balanced right with 7.5 turns since it comes up on its own (lucky for him he had a vice grip above the rollers so the door didn't go up higher). I think later in the video he says he adjusts the springs to 7.25 turns and it seems as though his door still won't balance right. And then at the very end he mentions that he had to back off an additional 1/4 turn (so I guess he left the springs with 7 turns???). Seriously, we have had to replace so many openers, top panels, or sometimes even entire doors since torsion springs became more easily available to DIY-ers. Like I said, I know there are a few DIY-ers that MIGHT be able to do this safely and correctly but most don't and then we have to go and fix the mess they made. But like Warren said, more money in our pockets!
Posted 25 Aug 2012 at 1:29pm #
What really gets to me about all the youtube videos and online instructions is that they only show you how to replace garage door springs on a standard headroom setup. But as we know, not all doors are set up this way. What if the door has low-headroom tracks with reverse wound springs and the drums mounted on the outside of the end bearing plate with outside pick-up? What about rear mount torsion springs? Or what if you have a heavy custom wooden carriage house door that has a commercial spring setup? They certainly don't cover that in the videos. Now I'm not trying to put down the videos or online instructions but I feel that these are some of the many reasons why these jobs are best left to professionals-we have all seen these setups and understand them and can safely work on them.
Posted 09 Sep 2012 at 7:35pm #
The sky is falling ! Boo ! Torsion springs are more dangerous than rattlesnakes ... it's a fact ! 😀
@Warren ... No didn't use screwdrivers dude. Winding bars are also readily available online now. Sold separately or included with the set of torsion springs on ebay-etc. and/or many local hardware stores stock 3' long, 1/2dia cold rolled steel rods for somewhere around $5 bucks. Too much headache to cut it in half with a hacksaw. Happen to live in a fairly large city, didn't feel like waiting for them in the mail, called a local metal shop and had a set fabricated for $12 bucks.
@Unhappy ...
Yep ... that's the nature of many contracting trades and one of the reasons I opted for diy. Plenty of operators in any trade industry ready, willing and able to rear end ignorant or uncautious folks. The whole $200 quote jumping to $5-6-700 trick. Once they get a foot in the door.
Not to mention there are so many projects someone can more than handle on their own. Plenty of quality information at the push of a button on the net.
Think it's always better to do some research into things like this just for your own peace of mind. It's alot easier to pull sleazy chit on people who know zero about a home project. So people do have to be on guard and use common sense, caution dealing with unknown "pros". Sucks ... but isn't a recent development. People have been taking advantage of other people since the cavemen. 😀
Jmo ... your sister should've made a major stink about the 2 shooting to almost $600, then are there. Forget ok I'll sign the check okie dokie. Should've kicked hiz azz out and slammed the door in the dude's face. Act like a doormat, folks are happy to walk on ya. Definitely believe often enough ... nice guys/gals finish last.
Am not saying this is a 10min diy project. Takes time to read up and figure out what you're doing. For plenty of people if you-they can find a reputable company that will do it for a fair price ( imo ... $185-240 or so.)
Am saying all this fear mongering bs the "pros" keep spouting is retarded nonsense. The ER's around the country are not over-flowing with people who tried to change torsion springs themselves. Whichever way someone decides to go, is entirely up to them. Hope it turns out well for people either way.
Posted 10 Sep 2012 at 2:56am #
Can'ttakeitanymore
Hey, Dude! I'm happy for you that your diy job turned out as it did. I've got to admit, some have been a little overzealous about warning people of the dangers regarding diy darage door repair. I haven't personally checked out ER's to see how many accidents have happened repairing garage doors. I really don't care. I also really don't care if you did this successfully, or not! I don't even care if you neglected to check the rollers, cables, bearings, or loose bolts, nuts, or screws. If not, it could bite you, you know where, at a later date!
I am well aware of the illigitimate companies who "hit and run." I wish there was a way to stop them, but all we can do is try to make unsuspecting help seekers aware and hope enough of them have friends who pass the word, and check companies out BEFORE the job is awarded.
I believe most companies to be honest, and will do a good job at a fair price, but, you have to call around. Don't just call and give the job to the ONLY call you made. Always ask if there are any hidden charges, and if that will be the final price. Don't pay for repairs you didn't authorize. If they can't show you the bad part before they remove it, it probably isn't bad!
Lastly, ask what the price includes. My customers don't have to ask--I tell them. When they call for a price, after a few simple questions, I give them a price, and, it includes, checking the door out, cables, rollers, bent or broken hinges, loose bolts or screws, alignment of the track. I have, on occassion, gone to a job that wasn't as the customer saw it, but very seldom. The job is not complete until the sensitivity, open, and close, is checked, and all moving parts lubricated. I check for sagging chain on the opener. It can mean the bushing on the sprocket shaft is worn and will need attention soon. When I leave a job, the door operates as well, or sometimes better, than when it was new. I have an A-+ rating with the BBB. Calling them is the best place to start. If there is one claim against a company, you need to pass on them, or find out why. It don't always make them a bad company. Sometimes there are bad customers that may not like your personality, or ask you to do more than agreed on, and make a bad report.
All I'm saying is, most generally, you get a more complete job with a professional. They know what to look for and how to assess and repair. It is what they do, day after day, job after job.
On closing, I hope your kid's appendix don't burst, and you go online, rather than to a doctor. They may REALLY rip you off!
Posted 10 Sep 2012 at 1:36pm #
Lmao ... Doctors generally end up going to 8-12yrs of friggin med school, internships etc blahblahblah. So working on a garage door is the equivalent of Medical degree now ? OMG ! We got a loose screw, paging Dr. Warren ... Call out the helicopter stat ! He'll know what to do ! 😀
How many years of indepth training and education did the "pros" here undergo to be qualified to use a set of winding bars and a wrench ?
Some of the folks here are kinda over the top ridiculous. This is easily something a diyer can handle imo ( limited experience.) No specialized tools required other than a $10 set of winding bars. Though that's something each person would have to assess and decide for themselves.
All the ominous warnings and doom and gloom crap the "pros" tend to spout about this topic is total retardation. If you hurt yourself doing this project, then hey ... you deserved it, cause you'd have to be a friggin moron in the first place, shrugs.
Only 2 cents. Sheesh ... as busy as all the "pros" here are, would think they wouldn't have all this time on their hands to keep up with the fear mongering nonsense. Shouldn't you guys/gals be off doing complex surgery on a garage door somewhere ?
Posted 10 Sep 2012 at 2:58pm #
Can't takeitanymore, just who are you, a reincarnation of Rectom? He was a leech that would attach to anyone or thing and just keep badgering. Who the hell said anything about having to have a degree to fix garage doors? All I said was people who do it every day are more aware of what problems to look for than Can'ttakeitanymore. I'm glad you don't live in my city, as I really don't want to rescue you after you get in over your head! I also don't want to do business with whoever you are employed by.
Happy to be in Idaho!
Posted 11 Sep 2012 at 12:07am #
Not all of us garage door pros are crooks. True, there are some scam artists everywhere that will try to take advantage of anyone but most of us are just making an honest living. My wife and I have owned our company for 26 years and we have always been very competitive and fair. We don't make customers pay or sign any contracts before the work is even started and we always show them any parts that appear to be worn and compare them to the new parts we carry in our trucks. Most of the time, we can repair your door or opener rather than replace and save you some $$. And these business practices work because a lot of our business has been through word of mouth or from repeat customers that were very satisfied with our service in the first place. For after hours service we do charge an additional emergency fee but it isn't something completely outrageous. We do live in a large city too so we do charge a service call if we send a tech out to a person's house for any reason (only exceptions are new door and opener estimates).
As a homeowner, you have to do your homework beforehand. If you have a broken spring, you should always ask the person on the phone if the price is for one spring or for both springs. You should also ask them if the price includes the service call or if that's an additional charge. Do some research on a few companies-google their names and see what others are saying about them. Look for the company's physical address too. Most companies have fully stocked trucks with a large variety of springs for different lifts so they can replace your springs in one visit. However, if the tech claims he has to come back, ask him if he will charge you an additional trip fee. Again, most companies won't have to make a second trip, unless you have a rare setup that requires custom fabrication (and even then we can probably rig something up on the spot). Don't let the techs force you to buy something. An honest repair company will warranty the springs and labor without forcing you to "overhaul" your entire garage door. You should be suspicious of any company that offers "lifetime" springs. Any pro will tell you that springs break because of metal fatigue. It doesn't matter if the springs are oil-tempered, galvanized, powder coated, whatever...the springs will eventually become so fatigued that they will break. These are just some pointers that hopefully help you when you are in need of garage door repair so that you don't get ripped off.
As a pro, I honestly don't care that DIY-ers are replacing their own springs. If you feel you can do the job safely, then that's fine. Some people are able to replace their own springs. I don't recommend it but I'm not going to stop you. It has not affected our business and in fact, we get so many calls where a customer has a door that won't work right because they messed up somewhere. Some people "wind" the springs off the cones because they installed the springs on the wrong side of the center bearing plate. Others don't reset the cable drums properly and as a result the door isn't leveled. Sometimes the customer didn't put enough tension on the springs and the door came crashing down and ruined the bottom section. Maybe the springs were too weak and the opener gears or trolley stripped out. Or maybe the springs were too strong and the opener bent the top section or maybe even the entire door. We even had one unique situation where a customer tried to replace the springs with the door in the up position. Needless to say, it didn't go well and he ended up paying more for us to come out and fix his mess than if he would have called us in the first place. These are just some of the scenarios we have seen when doors are not properly repaired or when people think they know what they're doing but at the same time don't.
Posted 12 Sep 2012 at 3:07pm #
Good Warren ... my employer doesn't want your business ! Wtf would someones employer have to do with anything here ? Lmao ... you Dr Warren seem like an odd cookie to me dude. 😀
Am sure there are good companies ( and more than a few bad.) Pretty much like that with anything. Did consider having it done by a "pro" impression I got from dealing with a few of the better known companies = sleazy impression immediately.
Again ... not a tough job. Unlike the "pros" who claim they know everything about every poss garage door model from 1876-12. A person only need research n understand THEIR door. Think it's pretty straight forward and simple, once somebody spends a bit of time researching the project anyway.
As for the winding the cones off ... If you can't tell right from left ( the right-side cone is often marked too, lmao.) Then yeah, ya might want to consider a "professional". That's one of the intensive training classes these "pros' have to go through to be qualified to use winding bars and wrenches.
Ok class repeat after me, this is left, this here is right ... any questions ? 😀
Posted 12 Sep 2012 at 3:56pm #
Edit: For real isn't tough. All the dread and danger from the "pros" is 99.9999% pure bs. Only wanted to clarify, obviously people who do choose to do this project themselves would need to research.
That guy, (Dan Musick) above has a website that's a good starting place imo. http://ddmgaragedoors.com. He's got some good info on the topic for whoever feels like reading it over.
Ok will shut it now folks. Best wishes to all my fellow netizens. 😀
Posted 12 Sep 2012 at 7:56pm #
Can'ttakeitanymore
I'll spell it out for you. If you are a smart ass m on a site such as this, you probably are elsewhere also. Most employers don't want such attitudes representing their business. You are a bully, and you like to try to make people who know what their talking about look stupid. Sorry, It works in reverse!
Any company that TOLERATES attitudes such as yours doesn't deserve patronage from people who are trying to make an honest living. (Not that all garage door people are honest, but whatever you do, I'd bet there are some who shouldn't be in the position they are in either.)
You are right about one thing though. There is good advice from people who sell springs and other parts online, but you still have to pay attention, because springs I've seen aren't labeled, L, or R. You have to pay attention to which way the end of the spring points. Even if they spell it out for you, there are some who just shouldn't do it.
You seem to take particular interest in myself and comments I've made. I don't have a clue about the Dr. title you gave me. I don't think you can find anything I've written that percieves me to be anything other than a garage door professional who believes in giving advice to those who want it, and in my opinion, actually has helped some diy'ers, or some who just wanted to know if someone was trying to "bend them over."
So long for now, Bully. Till next time,
Warren
Posted 13 Sep 2012 at 1:46am #
@can'ttakeitanymore, those L and R markings or the red/black paint marks on the winding cones are completely useless to someone that doesn't understand how their garage door works and most likely isn't very helpful if you don't have a door with standard headroom tracks. For instance, the springs on garage doors with low headroom tracks with the drums mounted on the outside of the end bearing plate and outside cable pick up will not be wound in the same direction like the springs on a door with standard headroom tracks. Back in 1980, when I first started in the garage door biz, my boss at the time taught me to look at the spring tail on the winding cone end. It always points in the direction that the spring is wound. I have since then passed this trick onto my employees for the past 26 years but you have to understand how your door works in order to understand this trick. This ain't rocket science and it is part of the "intensive" training we go through to become certified to work on your door when it breaks. There's more to the "this is left this is right" stuff you are mocking.
Actually, this is a tough and dangerous job for someone who doesn't understand how their garage door works. There are plenty of smart people out there that shouldn't work on their garage doors. It's just that simple. Many aren't aware of the proper tools they should be using or how to obtain the correct springs. Some people have never even noticed the springs until one breaks. My techs have talked to so many of our customers that think the opener is what does the heavy lifting, not the springs. Even if they don't get hurt, many will screw up somewhere. We aren't making this up like you think we are. Like I've said, I could care less that some homeowner wants to replace their own garage door springs. Good for them! They aren't taking away my business. In fact, eventually we gain their business later when we have to go to their house and repair or sometimes even replace their door and/or opener after they had supposedly fixed it. Many times, it costs them more for us to go out there and fix their problem than if they had called us in the first place. Again, I'm not making this up to boost my business. This is just what I have noticed ever since springs became more easily available to DIY-ers.
I'm not trying to come across as condescending. I remember when the instructions at DDM Garage Doors by Dan Musick first came out around 2005. They are well written if I do say so myself and he goes over a lot of safety warnings and possible scenarios that might come up. But even then, I know that so many DIY-ers will mess up somewhere or maybe even get hurt. Just look at the DIY clinic video on youtube. No, he didn't get hurt. But he couldn't get the door to balance right...not even after adjusting the spring tension. He most likely ordered the wrong springs on ebay. I don't have anything against him replacing the springs on his own. In fact, I thought that it was terrible how other "pros" were insulting him on youtube because of his video. But, he did mess up somewhere because the door wouldn't balance. Like I said, I've seen this so many times so I know what I'm talking about. Not everyone finds this easy like you, me, warren, or the other pros that have posted on this blog.
Posted 08 Feb 2013 at 5:55pm #
you cannot do that the spring needs to stretch out while winding if you do it that way the spring cannot stretch out.
Posted 08 Feb 2013 at 7:04pm #
this guy sounds like an idiot he is referring to a torque Master being better than a torsion spring don't listen to this guy the torque master is garbage
Posted 13 Feb 2013 at 10:30am #
Fartass, I haven't seen the comments you are refering to on this site, but saw one in my email. That person commented rewinding the cables and closing the door. I didn't get the idea the springs were ever released from their position on the torsion shaft, therefore, they would have already been streched out. You are correct however, that the best way to handle this situation would be to leave the door closed and release the springs on the tube, reattach the cables, and rewind the springs.
If the springs were released and retightened in the up position, the door wouldn't close, because there would be no place for the springs to expand to.
Posted 07 May 2013 at 12:10am #
That door definitely needs a new torsion spring. I totally agree that it would be best to just pay someone to do the replacement than doing it yourself to save time and to avoid problems in the future. When you want to hire someone, do you have to the buy the springs yourself or is already included in the package?
Posted 03 Jun 2013 at 12:42am #
A reputable garage door dealer carries several sizes of door springs as well as other parts on their trucks so that they can fix your door in one visit most of the time. The technician should also do a complete lube and safety inspection of the door and opener while they're there. This includes checking for any worn or damaged hardware, cracks or dents on the door panels, as well as the opener safety reverse systems.
Posted 04 Jun 2013 at 3:14am #
Yolanda, your legitimate service tech will probably have the proper springs on his truck, and will price the job according to the job to be done, including ALL parts.
Most garage door manufacturers have specific weights just enough different from others to require springs of a different wire size and length. Most of us carry as many as 50 to 75 springs on our service trucks, of different sizes, to ensure we can replace most springs without making a second trip. Some springs are of a common size, so we carry extras of these so we can make several service calls each day without having to return to the shop for more supplies.
Alex is right about what a tech should do before leaving a job. Personally, I'm not concerned about dents unless they compromise the integrity of the door. Cracks starting at the top or bottom edge of a door section usually indicates the door has been hit by a car, and is showing metal fatigue, and unless a strut (bandaid) has been installed to span this damage, it is in need of replacement. Struts add weight to your door and changes the balance, which requires different springs to make the door operate properly. A turn can be added to the wind of a spring, but doing so changes the tension, which changes the load on the opener, and can shorten the life of that as well as the door. Bandaids should only get you by until you can do a door change, or section replacement.
I recently heard a home maintenance expert tell his audience to lube rollers, bearings, hinges, as well as the chain on the opener, with a white spray- on lube. What a mess that will make, and is next to useless. It might work well on the opener rail, but the lubricant won't get into the close fitting areas, such as roller pins on the chain, or into the bearings on door rollers. The guy who changes the broken springs won't appreciate the grease much either. A garage door lubricant can be purchased from home depot stores, or your garage door tech. Spray springs only lightly. Mostly to prevent rust. The springs begin to open between the coils as the door opens, so there is hardly any friction when the door opens, or closes.
Posted 20 Jun 2013 at 6:13pm #
How to Change a Garage Door Torsion Spring
It is important to know, before starting this job, that there are some inherent risks. Garage door torsions springs are under a tremendous amount of tension most of the time. This is because your torsion system is essentially a counterbalance system so when your door is closed the springs are wound tight. If your springs are correct your garage door will feel like it weighs only a few pounds when lifting from the floor. Even when the door is in the full open position there is just enough tension to keep the cables from unraveling (or there should be anyway).
Without overcomplicating things, there are some basic facts about your door you should learn first. One is size. Yes, size matters. Length is not as important as height. The most common size door is a 16’ wide by 7’ tall. It is very important that you know whether your door is 7’ or 8’ high. This is because the mathematical equation used to determine the correct spring depends on the lift. Are you lifting a 200lb door 7’ or 8’ off the ground? Put the wrong spring on and you have either a door that won’t stay closed or a door that won’t stay open. Neither is good for your garage door opener or the rest of the system.
The second fact you need to learn is weight. How much does your garage door weigh? This can be difficult to ascertain. The easiest method is to get a scale under the CENTER of the door. Usually, if you have a broken spring, this can require some heavy lifting. I would advise you to ask for help. After all, at this point we don’t know how much weight you will be attempting to lift. When weighing the door, you will need to get the total weight, meaning if you still have one spring working you will need to disable it after you get the scale under the CENTER of the door. This is rather easy to achieve, actually. Once you have the scale in place simply insert the winding rod into the winding cone and wind it upwards for standard torsion or downwards in reverse torsion. As you are back winding the spring watch the cables to see when they become relaxed. At this time your scale will be holding the full weight of the door and this is when you need to get an accurate read of the scale. DO NOT backwind the spring and rest the winding rod against the top of the door as this will give you a false reading. If you cannot see the scale from your position you should ask someone to read it to you.
Third, you need to determine if your torsion system is standard or reverse torsion. There are two easy ways to determine this. In garage doors, left is red and black is right. If you look at the winding cones the red spring should be on the left side of the door and the cables will be behind the rollers and the track. This is a regular torsion system. Reverse torsion, or low headroom, is identified by the springs being switched; red on the right and black on the left, and the cables will be outside of the track. Reverse torsion is the exact same principle as regular torsion; it’s still a counterbalance system.
Now that we’ve gained some information on the door we will discuss determining the correct spring(s). Ideally, your door should have two springs. The more coil length, the better, as this will give you maximum lifespan. However, you must hit one very important number right on the nose! IPPT, or inch pounds per turn, is basically a way of gauging the strength required to lift your door to the desired height and also a way of conveying a springs lifting power. Each spring has a certain IPPT and its okay to mix and match springs to get longer coil length as long as they add up to the correct IPPT. The IPPT for your door is calculated by simply multiplying the door weight by the proper multiplier. For 7’ high doors this number is .2897. For 8’ high doors this number is .2535.
Example: Your door weighs 165lbs and is 7’ tall.
Multiply 165 x .2897 and you get an IPPT of 47.8
Multiply 165 x .2535 and you get an IPPT of 41.83 (rounded to the nearest tenth)
A difference of six IPPT may not sound like much but, trust me, it’s a matter of life or death for your garage door. It is okay to round to the nearest whole number. 47.8 IPPT could be rounded to 48 and 41.83 can be rounded to 42. Do not go more than one or two IPPT over or under! It is actually better to go one or two under the goal and put an extra half turn on the springs. This helps assure your cables will still be tight when the door is in the full open position. If you go above the desired IPPT your door may be too light tempting people to take some tension off of the springs and allowing the cables to slacken when the door is in full open position.
You might be asking, “Why can’t I just take my old spring in and have it matched?” There are two reasons. One, it may not have been the right spring to begin with. Some technicians don’t weigh doors. They just guess and if it’s wrong they either over tighten the spring (taking away from its cycle life) or they just drive away after being paid for shoddy work. Two, chances are your door came with a ten thousand cycle spring. Ten thousand cycles may sound like a lot but typically for a two car garage door this is usually somewhere between 7 and 9 years. Not bad, but we can do better!
Now, before you take this information and run off to buy your torsion springs, you should physically inspect the rest of the moving parts on and around the door to minimize your travel. I would strongly recommend that you replace all moving parts on your door, i.e. rollers, cables, bearings, as they’ve been working just as long as that broken spring has. Take pictures and show them to the dealer so that they can match them as closely as possible. Smart phones can take pretty good pictures and give the dealer a good idea of what parts you will need. Replacing all these parts at once gets you fixed up right the first time and minimizes the chances of having to do more work on your door in a few months or a few years. My general rule of thumb is if a door is between eight and ten years old consider doing a complete overhaul with upgraded parts. If it is older than ten years old there is no question. Overhaul the door.
This is a short list of items you should buy from the dealer:
A left hand spring (red winding cone)
A right hand spring (black winding cone)
A pair of end bearings and a center bearing
Cables (make sure you get the appropriate length)
Rollers (I highly recommend some ball bearing nylon rollers)
Silicone lubricant
Winding rods if they sell them (you can get ½” round steel stock from a hardware store and cut your own). I prefer my winding rods to be 14” in length for better leverage. You may have to cut yours shorter depending on the headroom above your springs. But 14” is a good length to start with and works in most cases.
Tools:
Winding Rods (do not try to cheat and improvise here. You can seriously injure yourself.
Hammer
Ratchet with 7/16”, ½” and 9/16” sockets
Flat head screwdriver
Vice Grips
6’ Ladder
The fun part:
If you have two springs and only one is broken please heed my advice and replace both springs! If you don’t you will be repeating this process all over again very soon because that unbroken spring has run just as many cycles as the unbroken spring. If you only have one spring you can skip to the step two.
Step One:
You will need to unwind the unbroken spring. Remember, this spring is under very high tension. Do not take any short cuts here. With your ladder turned sideways so that you aren’t in the path of the winding rod should something happen, insert the winding rod into one of the round holes in the winding cone. This will allow you to control the spring as you loosen the set screws. Do not let go of the winding rod. While holding the winding rod, slowly unscrew the set screws. This usually requires a 7/16” socket on a ratchet. Occasionally, you will see set screws that are a 3/16” allen head. Once the screws are loose you will feel the tension be transferred to the winding rod. If it wants to go down let it down slowly so that the winding rod rests against the top of the door. You will now insert the second winding rod into the next available hole in the winding cone and lift slightly so that the first winding rod can be removed and the spring rotated downward ¼ turn. Continue this process until there is no tension left on the spring.
Step Two:
Now you can move your ladder to the middle of the door so that you can remove the bolts, usually 9/16”, which fasten the spring to the center plate. I usually like to loosen the set screws on the other broken spring and slide both springs to the left side of the door. Now move your ladder to the right side and loosen the set screws on the right drum so the shaft can slide through the bearing plate. If you bought bearings and cables this is a good time to change the bearing on the right side also. They are usually pretty straight forward and easy to change so I won’t go into a lot of detail here. And, while you’re at it, you can go ahead and change the cable on the right side too. Just remove the end of the cable from the drum (spool) and let it slide down between the door and the track. At the bottom of the door you can usually fit a flathead screwdriver in and pop the cable off of the tab on the bottom of the door. Occasionally, you may have to loosen the track and give yourself a little extra room at the bottom. You can often just loosen the track lag bolts (either a 7/16” or 1/2”) and move the track out of the way. You may have to hammer the track over if it is tight against the floor. This is best achieved by sliding the hammer on the floor and hitting the track at the lowest possible point so you don’t bend your track up. You can use the screwdriver to work the end of the new cable over the tab and then move the track back in place and tighten the track lag bolts back up. With the bearing and the cable replaced on the right side we are now ready to move over to the left side of the door.
With your ladder facing the door, you should be able to slide the shaft out of the bearing on the left side. Repeat the process and replace your left side bearing and cable. Now, with the shaft at eye level you will be able to loosen the drum and remove the springs and the center bearing while standing on the floor.
Slide the right side (black winding cone) spring on first, the new center bearing, and then the left side spring (red winding cone). Then, slide the drum back on and you are ready to slide the shaft back thru the bearing and spray some silicone lubricant on the shaft and bearing making sure you have lubricated the areas where the shaft will make contact with the bearing.
Step Three:
Now, we begin the reassembly process. Starting on the left side (always start on the left side), make sure you have approximately two inches of shaft sticking out past the bearing plate. Tighten the set screws on the drum and insert the end of the cable into the slot on the drum. Now, you will need to get the left cable tight and to keep it tight lock the vise grips on the shaft and against the wall. The cable should be tight enough to carry a tune if you pluck it but not so tight that it has lifted the door off of the floor.
Move your ladder to the center of the door. Now spray some lubricant on and around the center bearing, again making sure you have lubricated the areas where there is contact between the shaft and the bearing. Now you can put the nuts and bolts that fasten the springs to the center plate in place. I like to turn the springs so that the set screws are turned either down or toward the wall so that when I put the 7 and one half turns on them the set screws are either out in front or straight up but easy to get to either way.
Move your ladder back to the right side. Again you will lubricate the bearing and the shaft making sure there is lubricant in between the shaft and the bearing. Tap the end of the shaft with your hammer so that the left side drum is resting against the bearing plate. Now, insert the cable end into the slot on the drum and turn the drum so that the cable is tight. Holding it tight, tighten down the set screws on the drum. This will naturally cause the cable to tighten slightly more but that is okay and expected. Now that the cables are both set its time to rewind your springs!
Step Four:
Since your ladder is already on the right side of the door it makes sense to start winding on the right side spring first. This process is just the exact opposite of the unwinding process. Insert the winding rod into the round hole on the right (black) winding cone and lift until you can get the second rod into the next hole down. Once you have a little tension on the spring you will be able to let the winding cone rest on the top of the door if you need a breather. But it is very important that you keep count of the number of turns you have put on the spring so you don’t under wind or over wind it. This is most easily done by counting quarter turns. Each time you lift the winding rod you are winding the spring one quarter turn. A garage door torsion spring should have one wind per foot of lift plus an extra half turn. So a 7’ high garage door will take 7 winds or 28 quarter turns plus 2 quarter turns for the extra half turn for a total of 30 quarter turns. An 8’ high garage door will require 34 quarter turns. Once you have 30 quarter turns on your spring you should hit the spring with the free winding rod. This will stretch the spring slightly allowing some space between coils so they aren’t grinding as the spring winds and unwinds. Holding the winding rod in the winding cone in place, tighten down the set screws in the winding cone. Once you have both screws tightened you can safely remove the winding rod from the winding cone and move your ladder to the left side spring and repeat the process.
Once you have both springs wound you can remove the vice grips from the shaft and slowly work the door MANUALLY. Do not operate the door by garage door opener until you have run it by hand first. The door should be light enough to lift easily with one hand or even a couple of fingers. If you hit the IPPT perfectly it will stay, without falling or lifting, in just about any position. Most importantly it should stay all the way closed and all the way open on its own.
Once you have the door balanced it will be much easier to change the rollers so I like to save this simple job for last.
Step Five:
Your track is two pieces. One vertical track (the straight up and down part) and a horizontal track (the overhead part). About four inches below the junction of these two pieces you can, with the door open, bend out the lip that keeps the rollers from popping out. I prefer to use the claw of my hammer for this. Only bend enough of the track so that the roller can be slipped out. The less you bend now the less you have to bend back. Now, roll the door down so that the bottom roller is lined up with the bend in the track. You can often just slide the roller out of the track by hand but you could also wedge the claw of the hammer in between the roller and the track and pop it out. Next, pull the section toward you so that when you slide the roller out of the bracket it is completely free of the track. Simply replace the old roller with the new and put it back in the track. Now, you can roll the door down until the next roller is in position. You will continue this process until the bottom four rollers are changed out. The top roller you will have to do differently but first, hammer the track back into shape the best you can. It doesn’t have to be perfect just get it as close as possible.
The top roller is easier than it looks. With the door half way open position your ladder directly under the top roller. Holding the door with one hand, you can twist the track with the other hand until the door and roller lifts free of the track. Insert the new roller and twist the track again to reinsert the roller. Move to the other side of the door and do it all over again.
LUBRICATION
Lubrication is the most important and easiest, yet most neglected, maintenance you can do on your garage door. I strongly recommend you lubricate twice a year and preferably at the times of year when you experience drastic weather changes like Easter and Thanksgiving.
If you have ball bearing rollers you do not want to spray the roller itself. This will cause the bearings in the roller to get noisy. You only need to lubricate hinges and the roller shaft. You should lubricate all the middle hinges as well. Don’t spray until it’s dripping off the door. You don’t want a heavy, sticky build up on your door collecting dust and dead bugs do you?
If you work the door by hand while lubricating you will be able to gauge the health of your door as well as bring the parts to be lubricated to eye level. Keep this routine of lubrication and inspection twice a year and you will save yourself a lot of money and grief later.
It should be noted that there are many different types of doors out there and these directions cannot be followed word for word on some specific types. However, these directions should help you in most cases. I’m not perfect so if you see a better way to do something please let me know!
Posted 20 Jun 2013 at 6:15pm #
I'm sure it's not perfect but this is how I do it anyway. Please offer suggestions!
Thanx,
Josh
Posted 29 Aug 2013 at 8:24pm #
Your technique is pretty good. Personally, I don't use vice grips to maintain cable tension when setting the cable drums. What I do instead is wind one spring (the left spring usually), tighten the set-screws, and prop the winding bar against the top of the door to hold the spring tension in place and then set the cable drums. The spring tension from the wound spring will hold the cables taught, eliminating the need for vice-gripping the torsion bar. You can then wind the other spring after the cables have been set.
I always lube all moving parts during a service call/spring change. This includes the springs (old or new), bearings, hinges, roller bearings, roller stems, and the opener rail and door arm. I also fully inspect the door/opener hardware for any signs of wear or damage. I hardly ever do door overhauls; I find it's not necessary no matter how old the door is. I've serviced some 30 year old doors with the original hardware and it's still in good shape and it's not necessary to replace it. It really depends on the situation. Most of the time, the amount of money you'll spend on overhauling the entire door is almost the same amount you'll spend on a newly installed door that most of the time, is of a better quality and comes with higher quality hardware.
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 12:47am #
Josh,
T M I! This may all be useful, if you are teaching a class on "Garage door service," but someone who only wants to save a buck and do his own spring change doesn't want, or need, to know how to calculate IPPT's. Too much information in the hands of some people can be extremely dangerous. Rather than tell about color of winding cones, I would suggest looking at the end of the spring on the cone. It is wound the direction the spring end points, which would appear to turn the spring off the cone, but actually causes it to grasp the cone tighter. And if the torsion system is standard and mounted on the header, the springs are always wound in the "up" direction. Make sure the ends of the springs are pointing that direction. Some spring manufacturers use different colors to designate length of spring, which could be confusing, and some tech's carry "snakes" on their truck, and re-cone on site, and don't pay particular attention as to whether red goes on the left, or right, as the cones are grooved to wind either way--- universal. People, non professional, only need the basics, as well as the warning to "BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL!" Springs can be dangerous!
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 1:06am #
Alex,
I pretty much do the same as yourself, other than the use of vice grips. I usually use them, but on occasion, for one reason or another, I will put a couple of turns on the spring and set my cables, then wind the other spring, and comeback and finish the first spring. The reason I like the vice grips is because 34 quarter turns sometimes will lift the door (8') and the vice grips prevent it from going out of reach. I have just gotten in the habit of doing this nearly all the time. (unless I leave them in my truck!)
One more comment to Josh, when I slide a spring off the torsion shaft, I install the replacement, and replace the drum while the shaft is exposed, then proceed to the other side, and do the same. The fewer times up and down the ladder in a days time, the better!!
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 8:38pm #
I should have mentioned that I always place vice grips above one of the door rollers when winding or adjusting spring tension just in case the door wants to come up. This way, I won't be knocked off the ladder if the door were to rise up unexpectedly. Thanks for the heads up!
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 1:06am #
Alex,
I used to set my cable tension the same as you. However you'll notice that tightening the screws on the left drum actually causes it to turn back leaving slack in the cable. This may not seem like a big deal to you but it causes the door to run out of level. This often makes one side drag against the track or makes the right side cable make that awful sound the last six inches of its upward travel. Also, moving from the center of the door to the left side to the right side and back to the center of the door adds too many unnecessary steps. And yes I've serviced plenty of doors over 15 or 20 which still had moving parts in great shape. But they don't make them like they used to. Most doors available today are cheap 25 gauge steel rather than the hefty 24 gauge doors of the past. You can still get 24 gauge doors but almost nobody here in Tucson stocks them. The hardware also has become less durable. Cheap galvanized springs (which I absolutely hate and refuse to install), and Wayne Dalton's joke Torque Master System are just horrible.
Warren,
The reason I posted the amount of information that I did is to simply educate the reader on how much thought SHOULD go into this process if they're going to attempt this job themselves. If they hire a professional to do the job these are the steps they should expect him to take also.
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 8:30pm #
I've actually been setting cables and winding springs this way for 33 years and I've never ran into problems...I just always make sure the door is level and that both cables have equal amounts of tension. The trick is to set both cable drums while propping the winding bar that's still in the wound spring against the door. Once the cables are set, you can remove the winding bar from the wound spring that's already been set and wind the other spring. The tension on the wound spring will hold the cables in place while you wind the second spring. Either way works but each tech has their own tricks for installing and repairing garage doors. I should also mention that on single spring doors I use a vice grip to set the cables.
So you live in Tucson? I'm originally from Tucson but I moved to Phoenix in 1980. Out of curiosity, what brand of door(s) do you install? Do you by chance install First United Door Technologies? They were formerly known as Anozira Door Systems (ADS) but became FUDT around 2000 I believe after Clopay bought the Anozira name. They're located up here in Tempe and if you don't sell them, I highly recommend them. They're way better than other manufacturers and come with better hardware. You're right about the poor quality doors made today though. I don't sell 25 gauge doors-the entry level door I sell is a 24 gauge door by FUDT. I also install a second strut on the #2 section to better reinforce the door. Our entry level 24 gauge door comes with 14 gauge hinges, which is way better than the 18 gauge hinges other competitor's doors come with. And they're also a true 24 gauge, not a nominal 24 gauge.
I do not like or install galvanized springs. Whenever we get service calls for Clopay or Martin doors, it is because the door is either too heavy or the cable has come off the drum and the door is off track because the springs have lost enough winds to not maintain cable tension. Sometimes we re-wind the springs but we have to add more turns, shortening the life of the spring and throwing the door off balance. A lot of times, customers just pay for new springs and the door works a lot better. Personally, I don't like Clopay, Overhead Door, and Wayne Dalton Doors...the quality is just not there. We replace these doors all the time and when the iDrive was around, we replaced many of them and fixed a lot of them.
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 7:33pm #
Josh,
If you don't use vice grips to hold the torsion bar in place, set both drums before removing the winding bar and, making sure both cables are equally taught, remove first bar and wind the other spring. It works really well, just a matter of changing your mind set, and trying a different way.
I'm not real fond of the torque master, but after doing several, I've gotten used to them and can replace the complete system nearly as quickly as a pair of standard torsion springs. That doesn't mean I like them, but keep competitive. I like a challenge, and that don't mean that brand of opener! (not fond of them!)
Posted 30 Aug 2013 at 8:45pm #
I'm not a big fan of the torque master setup either but we also stock parts in case customers don't want to convert over to a standard torsion spring. This way we can repair the door in one trip. We also stock a limited amount of clopay/ideal door ez-set spring parts although we don't run into those doors that often. I'm not a big fan of this setup either because of the plastic parts, just like the torquemaster. But, we have to stay competitive so we do everything we can to repair these systems rather than convert over to a standard torsion spring. As for WD openers, well that's a different story...
Posted 31 Aug 2013 at 12:43am #
I absolutely love the udt doors. The 24g fully insulated door is the best door on the market. I'd put it up against any competitor's sandwich door any day. The only down side is that they don't glue the insulation in place causing it to squeak when in motion. I guess I'm not a huge fan of their springs either. For some reason they're often a few IPPT off.
Posted 31 Aug 2013 at 1:56am #
its obvious you guys were trying to promote someone product do you say you like the door Josh and you would put it up against anyone else's and you complain about all these things on it the Wayne Dalton 9600 is the best or out there they are clean out of the box they feel like a new product all those other doors feel like they been sitting around the warehouse dirty hair later to put in the cables are the only thing you have to put on all the hinges are on the rubbers on your pantry panels they work with every time
Posted 31 Aug 2013 at 2:21am #
sorry bad voice activation
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 12:22am #
First of all...Wayne Dalton...best? Hysterical! The 9600 is a great door for about 6 to 8 years. Until you break a spring and don't know it then try to open the door with your opener and it rips the top two sections off of the door. Out of the box they look great but they just don't stand the test of time. I will give them credit though. The TorqueMaster is a great concept just poorly executed. The plastic parts aren't that big of an issue but 16 turns on one of those springs is just ridiculous. Its good for somewhere around ten thousand cycles. Then the door is pretty much ready for replacement already. They have even gone cheap on the angle on the horizontal track. It used to go almost to the end of the track but now is only about 14" or so causing the track to flex and the door to sag in the middle. And the 9600 is 10 times better than the 9100 which is installed in almost 1/3 of the new homes built here. Can't wait to start servicing those in about 5 years.
Promoting a product? No way. But UDT is an outstanding product and if you ever had the opportunity to install one you would see what I'm talking about. They are built similar to the old Raynor 24 guage doors. Very stout. If I was promoting it I wouldn't have said that they are often off on their springs, now would I? You're obviously one of those "I'm God's gift to garage doors" guys, Fartass but your elusions of grandeur are as transparent as your lack of knowledge in anything other than your unique ability to find a way to disagree with others even when they are discussing something you could have no understanding, experience with or knowledge of.
P.S.
Who the hell cares what the door FEELS like. It's about how it operates and looks from the curb.
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 12:25am #
The only down side is that they don't glue the insulation in place causing it to squeak when in motion. I guess I'm not a huge fan of their springs either. For some reason they're often a few IPPT off.
That doesn't sound like any promotion to me. Anyone else?
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 12:38am #
Blast from da past, lol.
Just checking in on the happenings here. Actually some interesting stuff said,
Guys nobody here is trying to cut you out of the market, there will ALWAYS be plenty of folks who won't touch a torsion spring if their friggin lives depended on it.
Folks who wind up here more than like NEED to DIY or do it themselves. Said it above and 100% stand by it ... changing a set of torsion springs on a garage door isn't rocket science, most people have the tools to do it sitting around outside of the winding bars and those are easy to get too.
Did it myself based on internet research, still working like a friggin charm. Though for many it probably is better to just call a reputable pro.
By way of personal example ... My gf noticed the broken spring .. we chatted, looked up some local companies ... She got $225.00 quoted, in the meantime I looked into it bit and found out didn't need any specialized tools and decided fek it ... I can do this.
She called guy back and cancelled, he offered her a contractor discount, said he'd do it for $185 instead. In the end after A LOT of time spent researching online, buying the right replacement springs on ebay and getting a set of winding bars ended up saving all of $100 ( though now I know how to do this crap and can do it for family/friends if they need it.)
Guessing for most folks if pricing is reasonable in your area hire somebody. If it's ridiculously priced ( as some people here were quoted) if somebody would've told me that'll be $400 bucks mister, I'dv'e told em to stick a torsion spring up their *** ... or if you NEED to do this yourself. Then absolutely YES you can and it's not friggin rocket science.
Hope ya'll are well.
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 1:26am #
you are an idiot I have been doing doors over 30 years how long have you been doing a weirdo who cares about all this s*** talk Idaho
you're just a want to be, you are probably one of those fat greasy guys that that thing she's the best garage door installer one in actuality I wouldn't let you touch my garage door you probably stink
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 1:28am #
bad voice activation
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 6:27pm #
Wow, you certainly showed me, huh? You come across as so intelligent in your argument. Your name alone...fartass just reeks of brilliance. I'm 100% positive you just MUST be the best garage door guy on earth. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing something. If you suck you suck but you can always find work. I've been doing this for 11 years and tell each one of my customers that I'm still learning. You never stop learning. If you do you get left behind. I found one of your comments above
[quote comment="74749"]this guy sounds like an idiot he is referring to a torque Master being better than a torsion spring don't listen to this guy the torque master is garbage[/quote]
and then you say:
[quote comment="80584"]Wayne Dalton 9600 is the best or out there [/quote]
I think you should put a little more thought into your comments if you are even capable of doing so.
Face it, Fartass, you're a washed up hack of a garage door guy who can't even bring yourself to type your own words out. You are the epitome of laziness. Your comments here and your vocabulary expose your profound lack of knowledge in anything you've tried to discuss. And, now, in desperation, you lash out at me as if I made you sound stupid. Hilarious.
I am here to promote something; I'm here to promote a couple of things, actually.
1) Garage door work can obviously be done by anyone with an IQ above 10. Our eloquent friend, Fartass, is a perfect example.
2) The work should be given considerable thought before attempting. It can be dangerous.
3) Too many garage door companies are scam artists. Please be aware and call around. Angie's List is a great resource. The BBB doesn't protect consumers as much as they like you to think.
Josh Brown
Tucson, Arizona
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 6:48pm #
Warren,
Have you ever installed an Amarr? That's what the company I work for carries and I'm coming around. The hinges are strange but effective, I guess.
The biggest gripe I have is the bottom seal. Its next to impossible to change by yourself.
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 6:44pm #
We've installed a couple of Amarr doors...mostly for people who purchased their doors through Costco. They're not bad...I prefer their pinch-proof system to others, like Clopay or Wayne Dalton. It's like they tried to keep their hinge design as close as possible to a standard, non-pinch proof hinge. That said, I still prefer UDT doors. The UDT sandwich door is of a heavier gauge steel and the hardware is also heavier. In my opinion, no other manufacturer except maybe Raynor and CHI offers doors built as well as UDT. I've never had a problem with the springs being a few IPPT off on UDT doors but that might be because we customize our doors by adding a second strut on the #2 panel as well as upgrading the springs to at least 15k cycles.
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 7:31pm #
I can't believe I'm having a conversation with an idiot. I was hanging doors while you were in diapers my kids have been hanging doors longer than you you are a bigger idiot promoting Angie's List what a joke some lady that you paid to be on her list that to your going by yes she has plenty of garage door experience. you're just one of those guys that hang steel doors. anyone can hang those stupid square metal doors anyway try hanging wood panel doors with trailers low headroom to the rear. like I said I'm not going to engage in this conversation with the little punk like you you're basically a metal panel stacker no wonder you live in Arizona I think the heat is getting to your head
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 8:59pm #
You can't pay to be on Angie's list, retard. But congratulations on all the correct spellings. Just because I've been doing doors for 11 years (I spent my first six years out of high school working in chemical plants and have been doing doors ever since) doesn't mean I haven't had those same experiences as you. I can't help it you were born before me. Obviously you didn't take advantage of the better school systems of the day. I've done plenty of low headroom, rear torsion, custom frame ins and etcetera.
Fartass, I'm sure you're proud of your kids following in your footsteps as any parent would be. I honestly hope for better for my kids. Sweating it out in someone's garage on a 110 degree day isn't my dream for my kids. Congratulations though.
And as far as being a metal panel stacker...I try not to install doors too often. When I first started I was an installer and that's all I did all day long. But I've been doing mostly service for years now and find it much more agreeable. Your "putdown" on someone in the same trade as you only shows how much respect you have for other hard working people out there. Which means you have even less respect for your customers.
Posted 01 Sep 2013 at 9:16pm #
you called me lazy a couple texts ago now you say you don't want to hang doors or you don't do doors anymore you like only doing service. sounds like you're the lazy one. maybe those chemicals from your prior job have made you a retard. I make great money when I do jobs people where I live pay for quality installations and I don't even have to advertise anymore I get $789 for spring changes 1295 dollars for garage door openers and my doors start at 2500 I know you don't believe me and I don't care if you do I am busy all week long every day of the week. I make over a million dollars a year why wouldn't I tell my kids to do this you will never find a job for your kids and pay more it's all a pipe dream. go to your $99 bring changes and educate everybody they don't care you are the idiot that losing out on your future you will have nothing at the end when you're ready to retire because you gave away all your jobs for so cheap
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 10:28am #
Look at you spelling most of your words correctly. Way to go!!
Preferring service over install has nothing to do with lazy you dirty ass scoundrel. You are a scam artist. You install 9600's for $2500? A $600 door for $2500?? Wow. Great example right here folks of what I was saying earlier. Scam artists are everywhere. $789 for a spring change? If anyone reading this is ever quoted these prices kick them out of your house immediately. Paying outrageous prices does not guarantee an expert installation. And all you have to do is read his previous comments to know he doesn't respect you as a customer either.
At those prices you should be making a lot more than a million dollars a year unless you are only finding a limited number of suckers to fall for your scam. Well..a million dollars in sales isn't a million dollars made either.
So, you're old. You're a scam artist. You're rude. And you have a very low IQ. I bet you own a Precision franchise. That would explain a lot.
Fartass, honestly I can't continue this debate with you any longer and still maintain any sort of dignity. It still blows me away that you hide behind an assumed name (a name you chose for yourself, I might add. Your mother certainly didn't name you Fartass unless she knew exactly what you would amount to). You just keep raping the poor citizens of Podunk, wherever you're from. I hope they never catch on and run your dumb ass out of town. I'd hate to end up anywhere near you and have to clean up your shoddy work.
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 10:29am #
No voice activation. I type my own words.
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 3:06pm #
Oh you get an A in spelling.. freak..... losers like you are the type that complain when other companies charge to low, then complain about companies like me that charge too high you are an idiot because I would make your life easy in this business you are sitting on this website complaining that companies are charging too high what an idiot business person you are. you should not be in the part of a business owner you should only be an employee its people like you that ruin this business. you will spin your wheels for another 20 years and wake up one day and have nothing. and all those people that you thought cared about you know the IPPS on a spring or which door you think is better don't really give a s***. my prices reflect what I do and my warranty your prices reflect what you do and your standard of living. where do you get off thinking your price is the right price you have no clue on what it cost to run a business you dumbass. go back to your chemical plant you work at you are better off there. remember what I said you are a dumbass probably trailer trash person trying to get advice to a legitimate business owner go back to your stinky apartment and watch your box TV from 1980 that is all you will ever have.
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 5:50pm #
[quote comment="80625"]then complain about companies like me that charge too high [/quote]
You still don't get it. This isn't an attack on your spelling. I haven't even mentioned your run-on sentences. This is a demonstration of your lack of intelligence, integrity, and class. You can assume whatever you want about me. It makes no difference to me. I'm sure you are used to being wrong by now. Or you never know that you are wrong when everyone else around you is rolling their eyes.
Your prices and your attitude reflect your narrow view and utter lack of understanding of the world around you. You are a caveman, Fartass. An extinct breed of unintelligent life; you cling to life by taking advantage of people who are just too busy to investigate for themselves. I'm sure you promise a great warranty but like too many others always find a way to weasel out of it.
What I find most funny is that you get so angry that you can't even assemble a descent argument in defense of your actions. You have no remorse for taking gross advantage of people. Which, I believe, might make you a sociopath. I wonder how far apart your eyes sit under your unibrow.
Independent contractors like you give the rest of us a bad name. What I wouldn't give to know where you are and what your company's name is. I would love to see your BBB report and know what people are saying about you. Sure, you'll have some of those customers who are just happy to spend money. Most of the time, the happiest customers are the ones who spent the most money. But I'm positive you are just greasy, slimy scum with a bad reputation.
I better let you go now. I'm sure your family is getting together right now to watch reruns of Honey Boo Boo.
[quote comment="80625"]a legitimate business owner[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 8:11pm #
first of all I'm driving while I'm talking or writing whatever you want to call it. my brother is also in the business and has 32 trucks... my brothers strategy is the same as mine I am just semi retired now. don't use my line and call me greasy you are the greasy one and you're probably a fat guy that wears overalls. I guarantee you are not married and you do not have a girlfriend that like you because you are one of those guys that have no self esteem you are a want to be. I am done having this conversation with you your gross, and you make me sick people like you should go back to being an employees. you have no clue who you are dealing with right now.OUT
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 10:16pm #
I am laughing so hard right now. All this time I've been arguing with the real business owner's truck driver. LOL
I'm married with two kids. One of whom is majoring in psychology at the University of Arizona. Other kid is ten and can put together conversations 20 times more complex than your little primitive, feeble mind.
Where do you get these assumptions from? I find it hysterical that you think I wear coveralls, watch a tv from the 80's and that you are actually smarter than me. You are such a hack at everything you do. I can tell just by your inability to carry on any kind of conversation.
Out? Hahaha! So, now you're Ryan Seacrest. What a douchebag! I tell you people, just get any service person who comes to your house to engage in a 3 minute conversation and you'll know if you can trust them or not. I know you're not supposed to pick on the simple minded but this guy had it coming. He has exposed himself to be a scam artist. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing something. Any monkey can be trained to rip people off. Fartass is no exception. He is the scummiest piece of shit contractor you will ever meet. And his 30 years experience of successfully ripping people off has just made him that much more arrogant. He pays $34 dollars for a pair of springs and charges $789. That is enough said. The guy has no class dignity or even one fiber of honesty in him.
I and now all who read this know exactly who we are dealing with now. A loser Neanderthal who has been trained simple tricks to scam people. He's gonna sit here and act like he works so hard and his products are better than anyone else's and his warranties are just to die for. I guarantee you the 9600 is NOT
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 10:16pm #
the best door on the market.
Loser.
Posted 02 Sep 2013 at 10:24pm #
[quote comment="80625"]where do you get off thinking your price is the right price [/quote]
Its called market value you genius of a "business man". Market value. Google it if you can get your voice activation to work. Better yet, find someone who can spell those two words correctly look it up for you.
Posted 03 Sep 2013 at 9:05am #
you can tell by all the people responding to this how many people are listening to you, you are a lonely idiot. you probably talk to your customers the same way and they don't care, you don't have any audience here. you are talking to yourself that is how lonely you are you friendless bastard. now go get in your 1978 Chevy truck that leaks oil and put your overalls on then go hang of garage door and talk to your customers like you're educated. have a good day loser
Posted 03 Sep 2013 at 12:41pm #
Overalls, 1978 oil leaking chevy truck, and tv from the 80's...hilarious.
Look, Slingblade, if my customers didn't care they wouldn't call me back or refer me to their neighbors. Go ahead and rip someone else off today. If that's how you make your living, then more power to you. But you know exactly what you are. You are an uneducated truck driver who thinks because he's been ripping people off for years that he's Mr. Garage Door.
I'm not going to pretend to know everything about garage doors. I learn new stuff and new ways of doing things all the time. But I won't lie to someone about what needs to be done. I won't gouge them with $790 spring jobs. A whole new door often won't cost them that much.
You, sir, are a tyrant, a bully and a shitty human being. And if you think for one second that you're better than anyone else who's commented on here or anyone you come in contact with then you have no perspective. Empires grow and empires fall. Its always the same root cause, greed. So, go ahead and run your scam but there is always a bad ending. Always.
Posted 03 Sep 2013 at 1:23pm #
Here is a great resource. Please investigate a little before getting scammed.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/
Posted 03 Sep 2013 at 7:36pm #
Couple of things...one, almost no one will pay $790 for new door springs. Most people research the topic before calling a tech to find out what the average cost of new springs are. I live in Phoenix, AZ (about 90 miles away from Josh) and I charge $180 plus tax to replace two springs. This includes parts, labor, and a complete lube and safety inspection. This is pretty much in line with what the other dealers charge in Phoenix, with Precision door being the most expensive and Kaiser Garage Doors being slightly cheaper last I checked. Charging $790 for springs is crazy, even if you live in an area where the standard of living is very high. Our entry level 16 x 7 2 gauge door runs for about $735 right now...almost the cost of the new springs.
Second, Wayne Dalton garage doors are for the most part total pieces of garbage. Yes, the 9600 is way better than the builder grade 9100 but it still isn't the "best door on the market." The panels are very thin and made up of a very light gauge steel (someone told me it's a 30 gauge steel they use but I've never been able to confirm that). The polyurethane insulation may have a higher R-Value but over time the insulation begins to degrade and so does the R-Value. Since the Polyurethane is bonded to the steel skins, the door panels also de-laminate. Also, the high R-Value they boast is misleading since they're using the distance from the outside steel skin to the end of the integrated strut to estimate the R-Value. This is not accurate because the door is a lot thinner. Most Wayne Dalton doors come with cheap hardware also unless you ask for an upgrade. The torquemaster spring is a piece of crap...counterbalance mechanisms for garage doors are NOT meant to have plastic in them! Compare this to the UDT sandwich door (which is what we sell). It is a 2 inch thick door with polystyrene insulation that doesn't degrade overtime. The steel panels are made of heavy 24 gauge steel on the outside and we install them with 11 gauge hinges and a minimum 15k cycle standard torsion springs. Oh and the hinge straps run full length inside the panels and are made of 20 gauge steel, something you don't find in almost all the other manufacturers. For the most part, you won't have problems with the opener arm ripping away like on wayne dalton doors with their "unique" opener bracket that mounts on the top strut...I still don't know what Wayne Dalton was thinking when they designed this. This door is more expensive than the WD 9600 in my area but well worth the extra expense in my opinion.
Lastly, I don't know who the hell you are Fartass but this forum is for people who need help with their garage door system. This is not the place for you to release all your anger built up inside of you. My wife and I have owned our local company for 27 years in the Phoenix area and we are doing just fine. We have always been competitive with other dealers but we have also made enough to enjoy life and provide for our kids. We have never ripped off anyone or forced any of our customers to purchase anything. Since we first started, most of our business has been through word of mouth and that has built up our client base. Why? Because customers can expect us to be courteous, honest, prompt, and knowledgeable. This is what my wife and I expect from all of our techs. The impression the tech makes on the customer really can make or break you. If you do a good job, you're honest and friendly, then that customer will most likely refer you to friends and family as well as use you again in the future. Go ahead and call us rednecks or trailer trash...I don't care. Maybe you come here and throw insults our way because in reality that's how you feel about yourself and that's what you see when you look in the mirror, Fartass. But like I said, I really don't care. My wife and I have been happily married for 30 years, have 3 kids and have owned our business for 27 years. We may not be millionaires but we have enough to enjoy life. With our earnings, we were able to purchase a nice house in a nice neighborhood, put our three kids through school, with the youngest one being a junior in college, and enjoy ourselves from time to time. I don't know about you but at the end of the day, that's all that matters to us. All of this has been possible through honest, hard work without the need to rip-off anyone. We also have enough saved up for our retirement but, at only 54 yrs old, we plan on providing garage door service for the good people of Phoenix for many more yrs to come because we love what we do. I've said my piece. I don't know who you are fartass but if I were you, I would take a deep look at your life and ask yourself why you're such an a-hole. Maybe you're just jealous of others in this industry that really enjoy their lives.
Posted 03 Sep 2013 at 10:53pm #
oh my god another f****** okie. I work for two bit and I keep my family said and we have a good living what kind of freaking talk is that. your standard of living is trailer trash you guys are all still in diapers I don't even want to hear your sound anymore or your messages they make me depressed thinking how much losers are you doing garage doors and I'm in that profession as well. don't talk about me or refer to me anymore go work at McDonalds and make french fries you're a disgrace to this business
Posted 06 Sep 2013 at 10:29pm #
Hey, Josh and Alex, it doesn't matter what Fartmouth has to say. It is obvious he is pulling your chains. As Alex said, no one in their right mind will pay that kind of money for spring or door replacement. I have had customers that just told me to fix the door without asking what it would cost. That is not a trigger to financially rape them. That would cause a customer to spread the news about how you treated them, and soon cause you to loose enough business to close your doors. Fair trade laws would soon investigate your business and you would have lots of explaining to do. Just continue to do what you do, and ignore Fartmouth, and others like him.
About different doors, I'm not real fond of the WD doors, but I make a lot of money doing service work on them. The torque master isn't that bad, plastic or not. The worse part is that the customer can't see the spring and determine whether the spring is broken or not. Just a question or two and you can determine what is wrong before you ever see the door. I carry tubes for several WD doors and a truck load of conventional, torsion springs. One thing that is as important as any other, is to make sure the sensitivity, up, as well as down, is set properly. If the tension is correct, the top section of ANY door, will not be compromised, as long as there is a strut at the top of the door.
Josh, you asked about changing the bottom seal. I lift the door to a comfortable height and check if the retainer has been crimped. If it has, use a screw driver to pry the slots open. Then I use a small vicegrip and a length of rope. Attach the vicegrip to the rubber, rope to vicegrip, and take the rope around the track. You can pull the astragal with the rope while guiding it with your other hand. I use this procedure to re install. Once the old one is freed up, it can usually be removed just by pulling from different places, with the bottom of the door at a comfortable working level. I use this procedure with most doors, not just Amarr doors. Works pretty well for me!
Advice, don't get into a pissing match with idiots. No one wins, and you get super frustrated!
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 12:45am #
I just installed a door for 3400 it was a flush panel taupe 9600 Wayne Dalton door 16 by 7 and while I was there he wanted a new opener which I told him 1295 I gave him a bit for 1100 since he bought the door for me I took down a sectional too and didn't have to change the back hangs. I can care less what you guys believe I've been charging these prices for the last 10 years and I have all repeat customers doing your survey on what people would pay is the same way you guys evaluate garage door installed and repaired your idiot. have fun working for nickels dumbasses.
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 1:15am #
I think its hysterical that he's trying to pass himself off as a millionaire. Look at his vocabulary! I'm not frustrated at all; I'm just trying to get him to realize how ridiculous he sounds. That dude is a complete waste of DNA. The best part of fartass is still dried up on the inside of his mama's leg.
I'll have to try that trick for the bottom seal. I'm always looking for ways to improve my methods and I really appreciate your input there! Thank you, Warren.
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 1:40am #
oh that was so intelligent of you to say that, you really hurt my feelings for your information I'm writing this as I'm driving you dumbass I'm talking into the phone. do you think I'm proofreading it or what you stupid idiot, what a lonely f***** you are sitting at home on a Friday night talking about garage doors lol. I have 3 beautiful women laying in bed with me right now wow you dumb asses talk about how to put rubber on the bottom of a garage door. have fun charging low prices hahahahaha
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 1:56am #
Yeah, you are driving, talking into your smart phone, all while lie ing in bed with three beautiful women! Right!
We get it! And, what are these beautiful sluts doing while you are trying to f**** with us? I think someone should have put a rubber on a good number of years ago! ;-(
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 2:44am #
okay listen and try to envision I know you can hard for you because all you can envision is garage doors I was driving in my car the first time and then the second time I was in bed with the girls. pretty funny I knew you were going to say something about that. well I already teabagged two of them while the other one lick my balls we are all laying here in bed right now watching Jimmy Kimmel what the hell are you guys doing look around you you're all only friend list Garage Door bastards hahahahahahaha
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 12:00pm #
Really must have been exciting for you. Nothing better than topping it off with insulting comments on a garage door blog site?----Or a cigarette!
Posted 07 Sep 2013 at 12:03pm #
Oh yeah, Fartface, you DID get that--Lie ing in bed?Ha ha haaaa. That's you!
Posted 18 Dec 2013 at 9:21pm #
This past week and a half, I've installed a few Chamberlain/Sears openers for a couple of customers that have the mechanical limit switch settings and I've noticed that some seem to have an issue with the limit switch being out of whack. I've had to remove the cover case and set the limits from inside. It works but for some reason or another it's like the UP limit screw is maxed out before we can get full opening. I've done everything as I normally would so I'm a little stumped as to why this is happening. Has anyone here come across this lately??
Posted 19 Dec 2013 at 2:06am #
Alex,
I've been doing Chamberlain/Liftmaster openers for over 30 years, and I have never had this problem. The only thing that could be causing this problem would be, you need to make sure the cycle is at the fully closed position before you put the chain, chain/cable, or belt in place. Make sure the traveler is also at, or near the closed position. I have never had to run the motor in either direction before installing the chain or belt drive. It has always been in the fully closed position when I open the box, and there is always room for some down adjustment, and you always have to adjust the open limit. I suspect you are putting the rail with the traveler somewhere between closed and open, rather than close to the closed position.
If you find this is not the problem, I suggest you call Chamberlain and describe your problem to them. They have a very good troubleshooting department. You will find their toll free number in the back of the owners manual.
Posted 19 Dec 2013 at 1:45pm #
I assembled the openers with the trolley in the closed position so that's not the issue (unless I'm losing it already LOL!). There was one instance where the customer had already opened the carton and pulled everything out so maybe he ran it before I got to the site??
I did however just get back from an install where we installed two new doors with two new LiftMaster 1356 chain drive openers and those set-up just fine. If I have this problem again I'll call Chamberlain's tech support line...I called the other day but they were extremely busy.
Posted 19 Dec 2013 at 8:58pm #
At one time, I installed for Sears Home Improvements. Everything was shipped to me. The customer never had the chance to mess with the product. I was happy that someone offered to work for less, and Sears chose them over me. they are always shipped with multiple section rail, and cable/chain drive. It takes longer to assemble and install them, and the one piece track is much better.
If the customer plugged it in, it would only run in the open mode. It would have to have the wall button wires jumped to make it close. Like I said before, I have never had this problem, and I believe the only way this could have happened would be if the customer's curiosity made him mess with it. My advice would be to check EVERYTHING, before installing an opener that the customer had un-boxed! I have been called to install an opener after the customer couldn't figure how to do it, and I always ask more than the normal. It takes time to put the sensors on the brackets the right way, etc, etc! The same if the customer has attempted to repair an opener. They usually lose screws. The most they can do is to see the white powder and wonder how to replace the worn out gear. 7
Good luck!
Posted 20 Dec 2013 at 9:57pm #
Thanks! My wife called Chamberlain today and the technical support representative told her either the customer ran the opener beforehand without me knowing or there was an error on the production line and I just happened to run into the openers with the out of whack limit switches.
I personally prefer LiftMaster openers over the DIY versions. I don't like the half chain/half cable deal nor do I like the square shaped rail...it's pretty flimsy and it's noisier. The one-piece T-rail is sturdy and quiet. IMHO, a garage door/garage door opener is not meant to be a DIY thing...most DIY-ers will mess up. A lot of them will install the opener too high up instead of angled towards the floor and then they'll bend the top of their door. Or they'll set the forces wrong and they damage their door if it ever hits anything or worse. Or they try to fix their door springs only to wind up in the ER and/or ruin their door/opener. But, at the same time I can't complain because that's how I make my living!
Posted 31 Dec 2013 at 8:32pm #
I've never had this happen to me (also have a LiftMaster), but I agree that it's better to spend a bit on having a professional replace the torsion spring instead of trying to do it yourself. There's just too much that can go wrong..
Posted 01 Jan 2014 at 11:36am #
You guys are still @ it ?!?! For da luv of the gawds quit trying to make working on a garage door sound like rocket science. Seems you never get tired of fear mongering ... sighs.
Anyway, oddly enough both somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with the "pros". Changing an entire door might-MIGHT be better left to people with experience. Though totally within a DIYers territory IF they want to devote enough time to it.
Changing a worm gear on an opener or replacing a broken torsion spring is totally within anyone with common sense and mostly common household tools abilities. Yeah I can hear you "pros" saying, winding bars aren't common household blahblahblah.
You can get them 400 places. I paid $12 bucks for mine locally. Anyway stop the madness. Yes replacing torsion springs can be a DIY job, I know cuz I've done it. Still going strong 1yr later, shrugs.
So here come the qualifiers. If you know which end of a wrench to use, how to stand on a ladder without falling off and are willing to take the time to research how to replace torsion springs ... You're good to go.
Can save money and learn to do for yourself if needed sometime in the future. From a large city, so really didnt save a ton. One sleezeball company wanted $255, another $225. Did it with a set of $86 dollars springs from ebay and a $12 set of winding bars. Some 40W motor oil and a $3 dollar can of garage spring lubricant from lowes to keep the suckers lubed and extend their lifespan.
One other thing to keep in mind ... Is when you let one of these "pros" in the door. Don't be surprised if all of a sudden additional parts + charges start racking up. aka: Ohhh we need to replace this end bearing plate, oops really need to replace em all + the center one yadayada. So the $250-etc price quoted start shooting up.
Sure there are plenty of honest "pros" out there, but like any trade, rest assured their are plenty of scumbags willing to take advantage of people too. So whether you DIY or hire it out. Imo it's still a good idea to research a lil bit. Plus stuff like make sure it's understood that any work done is discussed/cleared with you.
Ok ... whew, stop the fear mongering fellas ! Oh noes ... is that a torsion spring slithering along my living room floor !?!?!!? Ahhhhhh, it's attacking, it's attack ... Oh never has such a dangerous thing existed than a rampaging torsion spring. HELP !!!
Posted 15 Feb 2014 at 3:00am #
Yes I agree there are companies that overcharge. My opinion is that most doors are safe to work on for the average diyer. Though ive been out at many homes where the owners tried it themselves and recieved major injuries, im sure there are a lot more success stories that ill never hear of. The bigger issue is weather or not it is even worth your 35 minutes. You paid 86.00 dollars plus 12 for bars equaling 98.00 plus 35 minutes labor. you have to figure the value on that. If you could have found a company that has integrity heres what you get. Instead of the standard 10k cycle springs, they will give you springs that have a 50,000 life cycle, and do the whole job for about 139.00 and put a lifetime warranty on them. They can do this because the springs will probably last longer than your door. They will still make about 80.00 for about 40 minutes worth of work. Most homeowners will just have the original springs duplicated, and most likely those are 10k cycle springs or less. If a REAL pro converts yours to a 50k cycle spring, you will save hundreds of dollars over the life of your door, and let us take that 1 in 100,000,000 chance of getting that winding bar stuck in our head-:-)
Posted 18 Feb 2014 at 6:36pm #
Jack, I don't know where you are, or what century you are In, but most of us don't install 50,000 cycle springs. Most of replace with same cycle springs, which are approximately 10,000 cycles. We also charge a little more than $138.00 for the service, including springs. If you actually do use 50,cycle springs, and actually do charge $138.00 for the complete job, I'm sure you get plenty of work, but you won't be around long, because you aren't making any money! You can't live on good will.
Other than household tools required to replace springs, a good file, or cordless grinder might be of use. Some set screws have been tightened more than necessary, causing the spring to hang up which makes it difficult to remove the old spring, or replace it.
The garage door on my home was installed in 1986. It's a Taylor Encore door, and there is nothing wrong with the door. I have changed the springs once, and I used 10000 cycle springs, same as what were on it when it was installed. 28 years and still going strong. This door could last as long as the home, if I don't decide to replace it with a carriage house door, or something to keep with the times. Otherwise, I might just add carriage house door exterior hardware to my raised panel door.
Mahaaaa, Whoever told you to put 40 weight oil on your springs, or anywhere else on the door had to be a complete idiot. I really hate it when I have to replace a spring with grease or oil all over it. NASTY, and doesn't help! A light garage door spray lube, you can buy at home depot, or Lowe's is quite sufficient, and just spray the rollers and bearings in the bearing plates. As soon as the door starts to lift off the floor, the springs begin to have less pressure against each coil. Fully open, you could easily put a screwdriver between the coils. Each wind of the spring gains the thickness of the wire, between 1/8th inch to1/4inch, times 8 complete turns, the spring will expand a couple of inches.
I agree, most people can dity, but most choose not to. Some are afraid to, while others just don't want to, and, most do it yourselfers won't do the job in 45 minutes. I have done it in less than a half hour, and as much as an hour and a half. The cost to the customer is the same, either way. By the way, I HAVE been called to change broken springs to find the do it yourselfer with an injury he received in an attempt to do it himself! I believe the most common is with 1 3/4" springs that the "mechanic" that can fix anything, took the nuts off the center support bracket with an air wrench. That size spring allows a socket to fit on the bolt and nut .
Posted 19 Feb 2014 at 12:34am #
Jack, I am a REAL PRO and I will gladly install 50K cycle springs on your door. However, you will be charged the standard $175 fee plus an additional fee in this case for heavier spring wire. You will also receive a standard 2 year warranty on the repair. No installer in their right mind would provide a lifetime warranty on springs...how the hell can you provide a lifetime warranty on a part that will eventually fail on you due to normal wear?? There is no such thing as a lifetime spring...period. Don't believe me? Try bending a paper clip back and forth several times and see what happens. This is the exact same stress the spring wire on your garage door undergoes every time you run your garage door. I bet that paper clip is going to break eventually.
Most customers want the cheapest fix when it comes to garage doors, hence the reason they go with whatever springs stocked in my truck will properly balance the weight of their door. Only once in a while do I get a customer that wants longer cycle springs and in that case, most upgrade to 15-20K cycle springs. Most however are content with the standard 10K cycle springs and understand that in about 7 years they'll have to replace the springs again.
As Warren stated, most people can DIY when it comes to garage doors, but most people won't DIY it properly. Many will screw up somewhere. Yesterday I gave a price quote to a customer who bent his door because he installed his opener too high. This guy thought he knew it all but obviously he didn't. I've seen many customers damage their openers because they installed the wrong size springs and the door won't balance properly. You also run into the occasional customer who installs the wrong springs and tries to compensate by taking some tension off the spring (usually about 1/2-1 turn) who is later surprised that the door is off the track because he didn't have enough springs tension to keep the cables on the drums. So yeah....go ahead and DIY all you want when it comes to garage doors. They have been my largest customer base lately because we later have to go out and fix their screw-ups.
Posted 19 Feb 2014 at 2:46am #
Alex and Jack,
I meant to mention in my post about life time guarantees. As you said, Alex, only a fool would offer such a warranty.
This part is basically for Jack, and others who think like him. A normal spring change for a 16x7 or 8 should run around $175, depending where you are. Wayne Dalton torque master springs should be a little more, as should Overhead Door's short lived spring system with the aluminum encased spring. That is always a conversion job for me. The torque Master is usually an upgrade with a different winding system that won't work with the old system, so everything must be changed. Of course, only a fool would offer a spring change for less than $150, other than a single spring door. Certainly not a spring up grade, complete job, labor and spring. Figuring your insurance costs, fuel, advertising, vehicle maintenance, office help, office rent, etc, can you maintain all this and your own "salary" with these prices? You will have to do more than 10 service calls a day, every day, on your own, just to meet expenses. Then comes your profit. Really, is there any? You will probably need another truck, so you can make twice as much. Oh yeah! Then your expenses double also. You have pay roll, and the taxes on that. Jack, I believe you need to change your practices so you can have a little "take home pay!"
Posted 19 Feb 2014 at 2:57pm #
Ok thanks for the imput. I do need to charge more.
Posted 20 Feb 2014 at 8:29am #
@Jack ... as mentioned by some of the others in this topic, lifetime spring replacement has to be joke and an intelligent DIY can also trackdown longer life springs etc.
Does make sense in my case ... imo. Time it takes researching what a person is doing and actually doing it are a consideration for sure. Probably took me 1.5hr don't exactly remember ( not including who knows how long it took researching and figuring out how to get it done.)
Then there's also convenience factor, ordering springs on ebay, they don't get there overnight. Unless you wanna pay for upgraded shipping. The ones I ordered were free UPS ground, shrugs.
So in hind sight ... at price I was quoted, probably should've just hired it out. Though that's a can of worms too, the price you get on the phone vs what it can actually turn out being can be drastically diff things. aka: The ole get your foot in the door tactic sleazeball contractors in all trades have pulled since jesus was in diapers.
Like any job, if you know nothing about it. A person is stuck relying on the contractors honesty if there's a complication or change(s) and stuck paying a service call charge regardless.
Guess it all depends ... some of the people here got bent over w extreme prejudice. Imo and from research, $120 or so ( 1 spring, $180-250 for 2 would be reasonable for professional service and same dy or next day having a persons garage door up and running.
Scroll back through some got hit for $4 - 5 -800 dollars for it, yowza, think that's robbery, shrugs. Whatever works for folks, just saying it's a totally doable DIY job. Like every other DIYer project a person runs the risk of biting off more than they can chew obviously.
That'd be their own poor preparation and judgement. ie: An idiot that would unbolt an wound torsion spring from center bracket has no business even attempting the job. Such didn't get hurt because replacing torsion springs is inherently dangerous, they got hurt because they're a moron.
Posted 09 Jul 2014 at 4:03pm #
I had a spring replaced by a company referred to us under a home protection plan with American Home Shield. Spring was replaced Feb this year and just broke!!! Same company came back out today. The guy charged us the deductible for the protection plan, then tells me they have to be oiled every 2 months. And that the spring is warrantied for 30 days. Is this true? Am I getting ripped off? This is the first time in 7 years we've lived in the home that this has happened. I understand years of operating but less than 5 months. ???
Posted 18 Jul 2014 at 1:21am #
Jim,
Springs should be lubed every 3-4 months but a lack of lubrication won't lead to premature failure, especially in 5 months. What reputation does the company referred to you have? Maybe they used cheap springs that were made with low quality steel, thus causing premature failure. I've been working with garage doors for over 30 years and I've seen doors that have never been lubricated with springs that lasted for years-they were just very noisy. The warranty depends on the company. I warranty spring repair jobs for 2 years. The warranty applies to parts and labor. Most companies (at least in my area) have a minimum 1 year warranty on springs and labor. Have you expressed your concerns to the repair company? In my opinion, it sounds like a rip off.
Posted 11 Jul 2014 at 11:18am #
To Jim H,
In a word "yes" you were ripped off.
Posted 20 Jul 2014 at 2:23am #
Hi, Jim,
I have been doing this for nearly twelve years now and I do not lubricate springs or track...ever. I do stretch them out slightly to keep the coils from binding as the spring unwinds. A single spring should last a minimum of 7 to 8 years while double springs can last anywhere from 14 to 20 or even longer in some cases. My best guess, in your case, is that the technician used a spring that was far below the torque needed to lift your garage door and instead of doing the job all over again he added turns to it. This obviously increases the lifting power of the spring but drastically reduces cycle life. So, in my opinion, yes you were ripped off. Curious, does the spring recently installed look to be the same size as the one that broke?
To test your door balance:
This is how you know if the installer used the correct spring(s),
Pull the release chord on your garage door opener so you lift the door manually.
You should be able to lift the door, ideally with two fingers, easily and without great effort.
You should be able to stop the door at several points between open and closed.
The door should stay all the way open, just clearing the header, on its own.
You should not have to struggle to bring the door back down manually.
Occasionally, if your door has windows it will slam a little bit the last 6 or 8 inches of downward travel. This is due to uneven section weight and is nearly impossible to correct on certain makes.
You should do this twice a year and lubricate all the moving parts on your door. I usually recommend Thanksgiving and Easter. These are typically the mildest times of year here in Arizona. Performing this test will allow you to assess the condition of your door and gauge the health of your springs. This can save you literally hundreds of dollars in other repairs because when springs go bad or are incorrect the rest of the door and your opener are put under undue stress.
Good luck to you!
Posted 20 Jul 2014 at 2:35am #
[quote comment="85771"]At one time, I installed for Sears Home Improvements. Everything was shipped to me. The customer never had the chance to mess with the product. I was happy that someone offered to work for less, and Sears chose them over me. they are always shipped with multiple section rail, and cable/chain drive. It takes longer to assemble and install them, and the one piece track is much better.
Warren,
I work for Sears Garage Solutions in Tucson. Before this I installed nothing but Liftmaster. I gotta say, I'm totally okay with the rail system. By the time you untie your rails, pull one off tie the rails back up and dispose of the box that the rail comes in you've wasted just as much time as it takes to put the 5 pc rail together. I assemble everything on my tailgate so its at a comfortable level. I've got a pretty good system down and I can do a service live in about an hour fifteen now. That includes the walkthrough with the customer, clean up and all the paperwork we are required to do (We kill a lot of trees).
Posted 21 Jul 2014 at 12:31am #
Josh,
What do you mean, you can do a service live, in about an hour and a quarter? Do you mean you can install a new opener in that time, including removing from carton, installing sensors, and testing for sensitivity, up, and down, checking the condition of door and lubing all moving parts?
I agree with you about not using grease on anything! A light lube on the spring only helps to prevent rust. As soon as the door begins to lift off the floor, the space between coils increases, leaving nothing to rub against.
You are misinformed about life of springs. Two springs on a double door is nothing more than two single springs. Size of door has nothing to do with life of springs, and time has nothing to do with the life of springs. A longer life spring can be achieved by using a heavier gauge wire size, and a longer spring, of same ippt's. This means, because the heavier spring can lift more, the longer spring will allow the turns to be distributed over a greater distance, resulting in less stress per inch of wire. The inch pounds per turn will have to match the shorter, lighter spring. It's like bending a can. You can make it break sooner by bending it as far as you can, opposed to short bends, Same principle! That's why you can't guarantee a spring to last years over cycles. A door that is never used will never need a new spring. It will never break!
Thirty years ago, when I was in my fourties, I would eagerly have challenged you preparing an opener for installation. I, with a one piece t rail, you with a multiple piece rail with chain and cable. I would be installing while you were still assembling! The t rail is much more stable and resists movement up and down if there is resistance in the movement of the door. Sears started asking Chamberlain to make multiple piece rails so customers could take them home in their car. Anytime you have a joint in something, it weakens it. My customers pay more for me to furnish a solid t rail with all chain, over the sectional rail, when I install their openers.
I know about the paperwork for Sears. Other than having the customer sign the work order, my paper work began at the office when it came time to bill Sears. If anything was wrong it resulted in non payment. Happy to say I ONCE installed for Sears. I wasn't working for sears, my company agreed to install for them. At that time, they were using Martin Doors. Martin likes to make their doors like commercial---plus 2 inches. ---8'2"--9'2"---16'2" etc! Lots of chiseling on concrete to make room for track!
Posted 22 Jul 2014 at 12:18am #
That is exactly what I mean. Like I said, I assemble everything on my tailgate. Even put the sensors in their brackets and strip the end of the wires. I've got a pretty good system down. Some of the more difficult installs will take and hour and forty five minutes or so.
As for the springs, I didn't explain very well. We use nothing but high cycle springs, 30,000 cycles or better. Two of our springs on your door will likely outlast your door. The cheap 19" springs that come with most doors (especially junky clopay door) are about 10,000 cycles max.
I do agree with you on the stability of the "T" rail. I much prefer it over the tube rails we use. It doesn't flex nearly as much and the units do run more smoothly. As long as they never switch to those terrible rails that Genie and Marantec use now.
I absolutely hate Martin Doors. I've never had to install one but the design of them is cheap and ugly. I've converted many of them over to a normal torsion system. They have some kind of anti-fall mechanism that fails once in a while and the door runs terribly, if at all.
We carry Amarr Doors now. Sears has a national contract with them, I think. They are okay. I still prefer the 24 gauge doors over the 25 any day. At first, I didn't like the end brackets but I'm used to them now. Some weeks I install 3 or more and other weeks I don't install any so I'm not dealing with them every day. I'd say they are my second favorite brand. A close second to UDT.
Posted 22 Jul 2014 at 10:28am #
Most garage doors are sold with 10,000 cycle springs. I can't tell you of any who don't. I'm not sure you understand everything about springs. Comments you make causes me to wonder. The length of the spring is determined by wire gauge and what is required to balance the door. A lighter door will naturally require a lighter spring to balance the door. All door manufacturers keep engineers on staff to calculate EVERYTHING on a door to make it function as well as it can. This includes calculations on spring size, and generally based on 10,000 cycle springs. If a .218 or .207 spring, 19" long will do the job, that's what it will get. If you want a longer spring, you can do the calculations to achieve that, but with a higher cycle spring, larger wire size will require a much longer spring to do the job properly. The springs on new doors are engineered to do the best job possible. If you happen to have a spring chart, go through it and you will be amazed at how long a .250 spring will have to be to achieve the same ippt as a .218. It just isn't practical to use higher cycle springs.
Posted 24 Jul 2014 at 10:59am #
That is exactly what I'm saying. Yes, a 19" spring will do the job but we use a larger gauge and longer coil length so, naturally, you get longer cycle life.
And, as I've said before, 30,000 is about as long as you'd want your springs to last. I've seen some of the old Anozira doors with 100,000 cycle springs and all the rest of the moving parts, the bearings and drums and cables and rollers, were just trashed. For many people, if the spring never breaks, they never get their door serviced. So, my point was you don't want your springs to last forever. A broken spring, while inconvenient, is a great reminder to have your door serviced. But the so called 10,000 cycle springs...most of them are garbage. They may last 10,000 cycles but they weaken very quickly because they are poorly made. The manufacturer gets you past the warranty and don't really care what happens after that. Clopay is the worst offender. Those tiny little galvanized springs are, frankly, embarrassing to install. I've checked many of those doors that are three years old or so and the springs are already weak and the door doesn't stay open on its own.
You are misunderstanding me and I'm not sure why but its all good. We're on the same team.
By the way, I've studied the spring charts and books inside and out. I also never go by what springs are on the door. I know what springs go on most doors when I pull up to the house but, if there is any question or doubt, I weigh it and determine the IPPT and go from there. You can NEVER trust that the broken spring was correct in the first place unless it was a manufacturer spring original to the door.
There is a new tool out now that lets you measure the torque required to lift a door. I haven't used it yet but I'm very interested in seeing how it works. It's supposed to be easier and more accurate than weighing a door.
Posted 24 Jul 2014 at 7:41pm #
Just out of curiosity, what is this new tool? After working on garage doors for such a long time, I generally know what size springs most doors use. If not, I just weigh the door. I don't remember ever measuring the existing springs on any door...just too risky in my opinion since who knows if the old springs were the correct ones to begin with. I've had several customers where openers have been damaged because the door was either too heavy or too hot because the wrong springs were installed.
You're absolutely right about galvanized springs. I think you mentioned Martin doors in a previous post also. I absolutely hate working on those doors. You can never get those doors to balance right to begin with. You adjust the spring tension only to find that after a year or so the door has become heavy again and won't stay balanced, hence requiring another service call. The stiles are very narrow and they also make their own piece of crap pinch proof hinges that we don't stock on our trucks so you have to order them if you have to replace one on a customer's door. The anti-fall device is a total piece of garbage that likes to jam, causing the door to be inoperable. Martin should have stuck with the standard design they once had. The older Martin doors are way easier to service because they use commonly available parts. I still prefer UDT doors, with CHI and Amarr doors being second favorites. I don't like Clopay or Wayne Dalton doors but hey, I'm always replacing them so it's not too bad!
As far as operators go, I definitely prefer LiftMaster units with a solid one piece rail. I have installed several Chamberlain DIY units with the sectional rails that customers bought at Home Depot/Lowe's and they're okay but I've noticed on several opener replacement jobs that the snap-together rail sections tend to loosen after several years, causing the opener to become noisier and the rail to flex more than usual. The new MyQ line of openers is pretty cool I have to admit but I don't think I would like having my opener hooked up to the internet. Just my opinion. Marantec isn't super common in my area but I've seen a few. They're pretty quiet but they have too much plastic and the rail is pretty cheap. Genie has just become total garbage, which is a shame because they made pretty good screw drive machines in the 70's and 80's. There's also the Sommer opener where the opener head moves along the rail. I've never seen one in person but Costco used to stock them in my area. In my opinion, it has too much plastic and seems kinda flimsy but I'm almost tempted to buy one if my local Costco store still stocks them and install it on my single car door that no one uses, just to see it in person.
Posted 25 Jul 2014 at 10:14am #
The new tool is some sort of modified torque wrench. You use it to slightly lift the door and it gives you a reading as to what torque is needed. Each spring is given a number instead of IPPT which refers to its torque. The number does differ according to the height of the door. With a counterbalance and scale if you are off by one pound you are off in actual weight by five pounds. This completely eliminates that. It is rather genius! Shoot me an email at joshbrown500@gamil.com and I'll forward you the info on the tool. My friend and former coworker makes them.
I, too, prefer the "T" rail. It offers better stability long term. I've come accustomed to the tube rail. As far as the rail loosening, I've found that if you hammer the end of it once you have it all assembled and affixed to the motor head you drive it firmly together. But who's to say that years from now it won't do exactly what you say and loosen up. It shouldn't as long as the door is kept balanced. I'll probably never know because I may never see them again.
The problem with Genie is exactly as you say. They are so cheap now that Sears has stopped selling them in store and online. What I've been running into is a customer who had one of the old Genie "tanks", as I call them, went out and bought a new one because the old one lasted 30 years. The new one lasted two years and is loud and malfunctioning and I usually end up selling them a new belt drive. Even trying to order parts from Genie is next to impossible. They print a great warranty on the box but do not stand behind it or give the customer so much grief that they become frustrated and give up. I tried to order a board on a customer's behalf, thinking they would help a pro, but spent two days calling and waiting on hold before they finally told us they weren't going to help.
Chamberlain doesn't have customer service to brag about but they have a huge distribution center right here in Tucson. I find it so much easier to deal with them. The only part I hate is waiting 24 hours for them to ready a logic board for pick up. Absurd.
Anyway, have a great day, everyone!
Posted 27 Jul 2014 at 1:17pm #
OK, haven't done mine, yet, but I will. Ordering the springs and torsion bars online. Really good video at garagedoornation.com. I am an ex bartender and English teacher, not an engineer or contractor. I'm fairly good at DIY projects, and can't see paying $200-300 for something that will cost me less than $100 for parts and tools. I'll replace my springs with the same ones that are on there. I only got this house in April of this year, but judging by the rust on the springs, I assume these springs have lasted quite a while. I live in Jax, so the humidity is high, perhaps contributing to the rust. I'll also have the tools for next time, or if my daughter, who also lives here needs the same thing.
Posted 27 Jul 2014 at 5:31pm #
Do you mind if I quote a couple of your articles as long as I provide credit and sources back to your
site? My website is in the very same area of interest as yours and my users would genuinely benefit from some of the
information you present here. Please let me know if this ok with you.
Regards!
My website: august birthstone (Larae)
Posted 29 Jul 2014 at 4:44pm #
Greg,
I don't care do it yourself or not, but if you do, check for frayed cables, wobbly rollers, loose nuts or bolts or screws, and make sure the tension is the same on both cables before you begin to tighten the springs. Make sure the door is level, and the distance is the same from the top of the door to the top of the horizontal track. If any of this is not as it should be, it can cause the cable to jump off the drum when the door is in the full open position. If the door isn't level, but measurements are correct, it can cause the door to rub the track on the low side. This can cause cables to fray, and break. I mention this because some floors have settled over time, and causes future problems when upgrading your door or springs. Final touch, be sure to use a garage door spray lube to lube all rollers, hinges, and bearings on the torsion tube. These are things most pros address on every call they make. Just second nature to them, where the home owner usually won't think of doing.
Posted 12 Aug 2014 at 9:42pm #
Larae,
We are not in charge of this forum. I, for one, have no issue with you quoting me. I cannot speak for the others though.
Josh
Posted 22 Sep 2014 at 7:13am #
I was a professional garage door installer 30 years ago. Rarely did I ever replace the torsion springs. The doors always came with a pair of heavy duty springs. Today, they come with one cheap low cycle spring that last 3-9 years. Since I am no longer in the business and recently moved to Nashville, TN, I am finding no one wants to sell you replacement parts locally. I could certainly order them online, but who can wait one or more weeks? This is the only industry that has a monopoly on parts and you are forced to hire a professional to install them!
Posted 27 Sep 2014 at 4:25pm #
How long should garage door torsion springs last?
Let's look at the impact of technology on garage doors.
I started in the business in 1979. Perhaps half the doors had openers on them. I noticed early in my career that doors without openers on them lasted probably an average of 20 years. Doors with openers would last half as long because the owners wanted to park the cars inside rather than park them outside at night as did those who did not have openers on their doors.
I also noticed the impact of children on the garage doors. In the '80's and '90's my joke with customers was that a door with an opener would normally last 10 years. But you would deduct one year for each child, and two years for each teenager. That was a pretty accurate predictor of torsion spring life.
Then came the outside wireless keypads. Why use your key to the front door when you could more easily push four buttons on the outside key pad and enter the house through the garage? At one point I toyed with the idea of giving away free keypads with each service call just reap the benefit of increased service calls from the higher use. It would have been a profitable venture.
As it so happened, however, the keypads sold themselves, and on average, doors are probably used twice as much now as they were in the '80's and '90's.
The father of eight children and a keypad for his garage door opener called me this morning wondering why his spring broke after only three years. The answer is crystal clear. It's not cheaper steel nor compromises in cycle life; it's simply higher cycle life.
For those of us who earn our money from servicing garage doors, we salute those who make, distribute and sell the outside wireless keypads. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Posted 24 Sep 2014 at 1:01am #
Yesterday I went to a customers house because his spring pad had cracked and the center plate ripped out of the wall. Unfortunately, he didn't call before trying to fix it himself. With no general understanding of how the torsion system works he attempted to re-attach the spring pad to the beam behind it. It came all the way out of the wall with the spring wound 7 turns and wacked his arm about 5 or 6 times before he could even react and pull it away. This broke his forearm in two places. He's lucky he didn't lose any fingers or worse.
People, torsion springs are powerful. Your garage door weighs more than 150 pounds, sometimes much more. The spring is strong enough to lift that door 7 or 8 feet off of the floor. Please, I beg you, approach this with common sense. If you don't know how it works CALL A PROFESSIONAL.
Posted 17 Oct 2014 at 9:45pm #
I had a similar service call today. A customer had a new door and opener installed about a year ago and he noticed 2 weeks ago that the springs looked like they were pulling away from the wall. From his description, the spring pad was starting to pull away but it was still somewhat anchored. He thought he could force the spring pad back into the wall by driving a 4 inch long lag screw into the spring pad. Well he did that and the spring pad cracked but luckily he was driving the lag screw at the side of the spring pad farther away from the center bearing plate it so it remained attached to the spring pad. He then (with the door still closed) tried to push the spring pad back into the wall with his hands and at this point, the spring pad pulled away completely. Luckily for him, the opener rail end was also attached to the spring pad so that prevented the springs from violently unwinding and injuring and possibly killing the homeowner.
The original company that installed the door was giving the customer a run-around on coming back out to fix the door and they had re-scheduled on him twice so he gave up on them. In the end, I properly reattached the springs and gave the door and opener a tune-up and he had a smooth, quiet door. These springs are dangerous and if someone that doesn't understand how garage doors work tries to mess with them, more likely than not they're going to have a very bad day, to say the least.
Posted 24 Sep 2014 at 1:54am #
Josh, I'm unsure of what you are saying here. Are you saying the beam came out of the wall? I'm sure you are aware the only beam in that area is the header, and I have great doubt that came out of the wall. If you are speaking of the stud, I can understand it splitting. There are very few builders who actually frame a pad, other than a stud to mount the SPRING ANCHOR BRACKETT to. After reading your post several times, I can only guess you are referring to the "spring anchor bracket" when you mention "spring pad." You won't find a spring pad in your installation hardware box, but you will find a spring anchor bracket. Normally, you will be able to attach the spring anchor bracket to the upper most part of the header. Otherwise, punched angle works great. occasionally, builders will put the header near the ceiling, if it is a high ceiling, or a second level is built above the garage, and you may only have a double plate and studs from the top of the door to the header. Quite often I have found a header that is not as thick as the wall. The drywall hides this fact, and it makes it difficult to mount the flag brackets and spring anchor bracket. That is when I use punched angle from the bottom plate to the upper plate. I am confident that will hold. Bolt the spring anchor bracket, as well as the flag brackets to the punched angle, and be confident you won't have a call back for this issue. Absolutely do not just use longer lags to reach the wood. You can't anchor anything tight that way. I've fixed a good many installs that were done this way!
I'm not trying to be critical, but proper terminology will make your post easier to describe and to understand.
Posted 17 Oct 2014 at 9:56pm #
A lot of homes here in Arizona from the 1970s and 1980s have 1 inch stucco on the exterior walls. When I'm doing carport conversions in these homes, I generally use punched angle iron to attach the spring center bearing plate instead of bolting directly to the stucco like other installers do sometimes. I have never had this method fail on me but I have been out to several homes where the springs pulled away from the wall where the installer attached the center bearing plate to a spring pad that had been attached directly to the stucco but not directly to a framing member.
Posted 24 Sep 2014 at 2:13am #
Warren, the spring pad is a common term used in reference to the stud that the spring anchor bracket, or center bracket, is mounted to. The stud cracked and the plate spun out of control. The pad is part of the framing.
By drilling holes in the header before running longer lags through the spring pad you can be assured the spring pad is safely fastened to the header behind it. I will often drill the holes and then run the lag into them before putting the spring pad in place and running in 3" lags. If you do not do this the lags actually cause the spring pad to push away from the header. Any half competent tech would see this as it occurs and correct it immediately. However, there are far too many techs who don't take the time and just don't care. It gives us all a black eye and it's one of my pet peeves.
By the way, I did 3 of Sears installs (service lives) the other day and the longest one was an hour and 28 minutes. I did rollers there so that was an extra ten minutes. I measured from the time I pulled up to the house and called in to the service live system until the time I checked out of the system and left the customer's home. They really aren't that bad to install. I'm going to do a video and post it on youtube so people can install their openers themselves.
Have a good night.
Posted 24 Sep 2014 at 2:29am #
Alan, if you lived in Idaho, and came to me for springs, I would sell them to you, but first you would have to demonstrate to me that you know how to do the job safely. Most people can't.
As far as cheap springs are concerned, most doors are sold with 10,000 cycle springs. It isn't a low quality spring, and can be upgraded to maybe 20,000 cycle, but if you go more than that, they would be a much longer and heavier spring. The spring , regardless of cycle life, has to be wound about 8 turns for a 7' high door. (7 1/2 turns usually) Otherwise the door won't balance. It may be hot in the head, or hot off the floor, and run our of power before fully open.
Beings you are an expert from experience 30 years ago, you already know the information I have given you. You also know that you can't just throw any spring on a door and expect it to work. the inch lbs per turn, IPPT, has to be calculated according to weight and lift of door. Your experience should also tell you a longer spring has to turn less in each inch of length, which gives it a longer life, but has to be quite a bit longer, and, of course, a heavier spring, because it still has to be wound 7 1/2 to 8 turns and still have the IPPT's to balance the door.
I'm sure there is some door company that would sell you the springs to you. You just have to call them to find one who will accommodate you.
Posted 30 Jan 2015 at 5:58pm #
Not related to door springs but garage door openers. Now that LiftMaster has converted all their openers to MyQ security + 2.0 with the electronic travel limits, I'm curious, what do all you pros out there think of that? Do you like the new setup with the UP/DOWN arrows or should they have stayed with their tried and true mechanical limit design? Personally, I like the new system with the up and down arrows and they have worked out pretty well for the most part but I still think they should have kept the old design at least for the chain drive and AC belt units. In my opinion, they could have converted the radio frequency over to security + 2.0 without changing the limit switch assembly.
Posted 30 Jan 2015 at 7:16pm #
Alex,
I work for LiftMaster now and I've brought this issue up with them. I was trying to get them to either slow the speed of the AC motor during limit settings but they say it can only run at one speed. I also suggested somehow adding soft stop to them so that the limits are easier to set. What I've been recommending when setting the down limit on an AC motor is to stop just as the bottom seal touches the floor. The only drawback is that it may not pass the 2x4 test unless you stand it in edge. No door has ever been wrecked from something an inch and a half off of the floor anyway.
Other recommendations I've made include adding two more nuts and bolts to the hardware bag.
Anymore suggestions for me?
Josh
Posted 31 Jan 2015 at 2:46am #
I personally haven't had an issue with setting limits on this opener. After getting familiar with it, it is a lot faster to set, and it DOES reverse off a 2X4, flat. It also reverses off my foot placed under the door. After checking the sensitivity, I use my foot, rather than the block. I ALWAYS know where it is, not so with the block! 😉 I would also like to have an extra pair of bolts and nuts to hang the opener, but knowing they are not there, I always have extras at hand for that purpose, so that is never an issue.
Posted 31 Jan 2015 at 2:44pm #
I haven't had any problem setting the limits on these openers and I've had no problem with the door not reversing off a 2 x 4. I did however once install the chamberlain version of the liftmaster 8550 for a customer that bought one at home depot and 2 weeks later I had to return to replace the travel module. Basically the opener wasn't remembering it's limits but the part was replaced under warranty. I had balanced and lubed the door so it was working just fine by hand so maybe it was just bad luck with that unit. For now, I'm still leaning towards the older style limit switch assembly but I have no real beef with the newer designs yet. I too always have extra bolts to hang the opener so that hasn't been an issue. I don't really like the thinner gauge chain on chain drive units and the new door arm feels a little cheesy to me. I do like the new case designs though-they sort of remind me of the early 80s openers made by liftmaster.
Posted 16 Feb 2015 at 1:07am #
Hello, Josh. How are you doing at your new job?
I've had occasional thoughts about your last post. You said you now work for Lift Master. May I ask, what is it you do for them? Are you working at a store, an outside sales rep? Sorry, I just have an inquisitive nature. I guess my drive to understand what makes things work, and to ask questions if I don't understand, has been why my business has been successful.
Posted 16 Feb 2015 at 1:33am #
Hi Warren. So far I'm pretty happy here at Liftmaster. I'm doing tech support for them right now. My goal is to get into their training program somehow. My experience is proving to be pretty valuable and, best of all, I know exactly what time I'm getting of work every day.
Posted 16 Feb 2015 at 2:21am #
Adam Mendel, I read your post about replacing your own springs. You mention a tilt up door. Why? You talk about torsion springs. Tilt up doors, or, one piece doors require a different spring---extension spring. You don't have to wind these, and can easily change them by lifting the door to the open position, and blocking it open. There are many different types of spring systems for these doors, and some are obsolete. Then, your options change to, what kind of door do you want to replace it with.
You mentioned winding improperly. It can be done, but the door won't operate properly. The spring can actually screw itself over the drum, and cover the winding bar holes. Also, winding the spring backwards actually puts reverse torque on the spring. It will be working just to rewind itself. The best way to know you have the right spring on each end of the shaft is to look at the tang. (spring end) When on the torque tube and ready to wind, the tang should point the direction you are winding. Normally, you push up on your winding bar.
Springs are factory color coded. Sometimes service companies cut and re cone, using a "snake," which is a long spring which they keep on their truck. They don't carry paint to code them. Count 20 coils and measure. You should be between 4 1/8 to 5 1/4 inches. That will put you in the range between .207 and .262. Then you need the inside diameter, most popular is 1 3/4" or 2." then, total length of spring. Your supplier may substitute a different wire size with a different length because of availability, but it is ok, if the ippt's are the same. It is the inch lbs per turn that is important to balance the door.
Galvanized springs are ok, they just need attention more frequently. They tend to lose their tension over time, and need to add a half turn or so occasionally to keep the door balanced.
Adam, I'm not after your glory, but I try to help people understand, and I felt your post was somewhat misleading, or confusing.
Posted 05 Mar 2015 at 9:17pm #
Today I arrived to a customer's house because he was having a hard time replacing a gear on his opener. When I checked his door it was very heavy to lift off the floor and would slam down when left at the halfway point. Turns out he had replaced the springs on his door a while back but did not size them correctly so he turned up the UP force on the opener so it could lift the unbalanced door. I explained that the springs he put on we're way off and would never balance the door properly and that also was the reason he had a stripped gear and that the new gear would wear out again if the door didn't work right. He ended up paying more because he had to replace the springs with correct ones. He should have called a pro in the first place.
Posted 05 Mar 2015 at 11:24pm #
What I find with diy,ers they don't read the instructions. They will replace the gears in a Chamberlain manufactured gdo, and not run the motor to the down position, with the door closed and attached to the opener, before installing the chain. Then wonder why they don't have enough adjustment to open all the way, or close. Sometimes, they start adjusting tension, because they don't know any better. They get confused, so they try anything, except----read the instructions!
I was installing a door I wasn't familiar with a good number of years ago. I was re-assuring myself by glancing at the instructions when the home owner walked in the garage. He exclaimed, we better watch this guy! He's reading the instructions! It is never a bad thing!
I have been called to help a do it yourselfer because he couldn't make the door balance with the springs he bought on line. After measuring the springs and discovering one was several inches too long, he showed me the old springs. He had read the tape from the opposite side, and read the measurement wrong. Wire size was right, so I just traded the right spring for his longer spring. The door worked fine, he learned a bunch, and I collected a service fee, and used the spring on another job.
Posted 06 Mar 2015 at 9:46pm #
Warren,
I'm curious...what brand was that door? I once installed one of those newer Genie openers and I had to read the instructions or else I never would have gotten it to work. The scenario you described above with the chamberlain GDOs was why I went to that customer's house in the first place. The trolley kept hitting the stop bolt and the opener kept trying to open the door. He thought the board had fried and was about to trash it before calling me.
This particular case the customer had a 16 x 7 clopay model 94 door (24 gauge) With one strut and no insulation or windows. He bought 2 springs off eBay that measured 0.207" x 2" x 22" that would have worked if he had a 25 gauge clopay door of the same size. I asked him how he measured the springs and it turns out he didn't but rather he asked the eBay vendor what size springs he needed by providing the door info. He bought the springs almost a year ago so i didn't offer to trade him a 0.218" x 22" x 2" for one of the 0.207" wire springs since they had been wound and used for a while. He also never put the center bushing back on for some reason and ended up losing it.
In the end though I got his door and opener working smoothly. He told me the door never ran that quietly until I serviced it so he was pretty happy!
Posted 07 Mar 2015 at 1:36am #
Alex, I don't remember the brand. It was a long time ago. However, I have to look at the instructions for geni and Marantec, or call their 800 number for help. I do mostly Liftmaster, sometimes Linear. I'm familier with them, but sometimes I get a call to fix a geni or marantec, and most times it is for programing the keyless pad. Adding remotes to existing marantec can be a pain in the posterior.
There was an instance with a Martin door I installed for some people who bought it at a co-op about 5 or 6 years ago. I don't like to knock products, but I wouldn't install this door on my worst enemy's garage. There was so much "safety" features, it was difficult to operate. Anti drop feature for one. I've heard of it happening, but I've never experienced a spring breaking in the open position. This anti drop feature is to prevent the door from slamming down. Sometimes they are just too sensitive, and activate when the opener starts to close the door. Any slack in either cable activates this feature. As I recall, the springs were anchored by the drums, with a two piece torsion tube. I may be getting another door confused with the Martin. I know Clopay sold a door with a two piece tube at box stores at one time.
The point is, some doors are just enough out of the norm that we may have to sneak a peek at the directions occasionally.
Posted 15 Mar 2015 at 4:33pm #
Warren,
I agree it's a good idea to look at the instructions when working with an unfamiliar product. There's nothing wrong with that, especially since it can save you a lot of trouble in the end. It seems that a lot of people don't understand that for some reason and that's why they run into problems.
Oh and by the way, have you ever heard of or installed a sommer synoris door opener? It's one of those where the power head moves along the rail while the chain remains stationary. I'm installing one for a customer this week and I read the instructions online and it seems pretty easy to assemble but I was wondering if anyone else might have some tips before I get my hands on it.
Posted 25 Aug 2015 at 1:19am #
One of our springs broke and we had a local professional come in and replace both with new springs. He installed both on the left side instead of putting one on either side of center. Does that make any difference if he installs them like that or should I have him come back out?
Posted 27 Aug 2015 at 1:55am #
Chuck, I'm curious as to whether they installed a new spring anchor bracket. I don't know how else two springs could be installed. My curiosity also wants to know if both old springs were removed. There are a lot of anchor brackets that totally encircle the shaft, and it either needs to be removed to change springs, or undo both cable drums and slide the tube, or shaft, both ways to remove and replace the springs. Your service man may not have had a right and left wound spring, and installed two right wound instead. (right wound goes on left side, and left goes on right, on standard garage doors) If he installed two right wound springs, he would have had to install another spring anchor bracket. If this is the case, it makes no difference where the springs are located on the shaft. What is important is the inch lbs per turn. If your door is working properly, I wouldn't worry about how he got the job done, but it is a curiosity.
Posted 27 Aug 2015 at 10:08am #
Chuck, I agree with Warren. The technician may have improvised to get you two springs. As long as your door is balanced. You should be able to lift it easily by hand and it should stay just about anywhere you let go of it. That's the must important part of the entire system.
Posted 01 Sep 2015 at 12:32am #
I've been working on a couple of ideas for repair issues, and looked on garage door repair to see if anyone has preceded me. What I found was kind of alarming. Some people have been repairing their own garage doors, and making u tubes of their procedure, and I'm not sure someone didn't have to show them the door! Supposedly, anyone who follows their instructions can repair their garage door, replace springs, drill out the lock, (whatever for, I have no idea) replace gears in Chamberlain openers, replace rollers--Etc.
What really got my attention, not one, mentioned running the opener to the fully closed position before installing the chain. If the gear has stripped, you have no idea what position the door is in. You can figure it out by checking the position of the limit switch, but a home owner would have no idea whether it was in open or closed mode. Also, they all seemed to concentrate on the worm driven gear. The cheapest fix! And that is all they want to replace--7 bucks! Just removing the cover, if the gear is stripped, it is quite obvious. But, how many of you pros have also found the upper bushing is worn out, or nearly, and the chain has a lot of slack. When I walk into a garage, I always look to see if the chain appears loose. If so, I check the upper bushing, and if there is a problem with it, I alert the homeowner to let him know what can happen, soon! I have found the lower bushing badly worn. Once, so badly the limit switch gear was not engaged.
I don't know why people make these videos. They are so vague, I don't know how anyone could follow them, unless they already knew what they were doing, and then, what is the purpose? If you want a laugh, or want to feel sorry for someone, check out a couple of them!
Posted 01 Sep 2015 at 5:29pm #
Warren,
I completely agree with you. In fact, I've commented on some of those videos about the upper bushing. I've even had the person who made the video reply that they had no idea what I was talking about.
In most cases, it's actually more sensible and faster to just replace the entire gear and sprocket assembly. Chamberlain sells if for about $40. When I was in the field, I got to where I could change a gear and sprocket assembly out in less than twenty minutes if everything went well. I wouldn't recommend that a do-it-yourselfer try to rush through it as mistakes can cost you big time.
Also, yes! Please make sure door is all they way closed and the limit switch assembly is in the closed position too (the contact with the brown wire and the middle contact are touching) You can turn the middle contact by hand until it is in the correct position.
Also, use all the grease that comes with the gear and sprocket assembly. Keep in mind that you will lose a little bit the first couple of runs of the motor. It is paramount that there is enough on the gear to reduce the friction and shredding the teeth off.
One last tip, please check your door balance at least twice a year and whenever you need to replace the gear and sprocket assembly. An unbalanced door is the number one killer for garage door openers and garage doors alike. If you door is heavy, your opener is tugging on the top section and extra stress is put on the door. When it's balanced the opener still tugs on the top section, but the springs help lift the door from the bottom where it should be lifted from.
Great topic, Warren!
Posted 01 Sep 2015 at 7:33pm #
Josh
I have to disagree with you about the grease! NEVER put more grease on than necessary! It doesn't do any good laying on bracket that mounts to the opener. It can't jump up and lubricate anything after it has fallen off the gear. You only need to lubricate the inside of the lower bushing, put a little on the shaft, a dab on the length of worm gear, and a little on the teeth of the gear. Some grease will ooze out from the areas applied, and that is ok. After running the door up and down, you might use your finger to wipe some grease that has oozed, and put it back on the gear. Not necessary, but ok. They supply enough grease to do the job, but don't want you to come up short, so they make sure you have enough, OK? I get my gear kits for under $30, and I buy a box at a time. I don't like to have to make a trip to the door store for a kit, spring, roller or cable. I can't keep everything on my truck, but I keep the most common parts with me all of the time. Some,duplicated. I also keep a couple of repair kits. (gear, bushings) because I still find units that the complete kit won't work, but I can use the gear and bushings. By having a repair kit, I don't have to disassemble a complete kit just for a new gear and bushing.
Please, diys'ers don't mess with the limit switch at all! Turning the shafts that move contact points will cause you grief! After replacing the gears, just make sure you run the motor to the closed position before installing the chain, and yes, be sure the door is closed. Interrupting the cycle will cause the motor to stop in open cycle, and reverse in the close cycle. So, push the button to stop motor. If it stops and starts again on it's own, it was in closed cycle. Press button again to run to full close. Latch opener to door arm and install the chain. Always pull the chain as much as you can by hand on the right side of opener to remove as much slack in chain as you can. Now you can adjust the chain with two 1/2" wrenches. Adjust until the chain is a 1/4th inch above rail. Make sure there are no twist in chain. Use second wrench to tighten the two nuts against each other, locking them together. Now you can adjust the door for up and down travel, then check the sensitivity. Adjust if necessary.
Posted 19 Oct 2016 at 9:56pm #
Many thanks for the data contained and also the pictures, we were seeking certain things today and handled to find your blog, we are leaving these comments to make certain that you keep composing even more information similar to this